Lmao!

 

Here is a list of my problems with the car. uke:

Hyundai has improved in quality quite a bit in recent years. Yes, definitely the Japanese and Korean car interior do not match the German cars when it comes to quality. But likewise when it comes to engine quality and reliability, European cars in general, and German cars specifically, can't compete against Japs and Koreans. The same about fuel efficiency and parts prices.

For my entire life I had no car other than Honda. Their interior was cheap and wore out rapidly. But man-O'man-O'man never ever I had a single problem with the engine even up to 200K miles.

Then the flood of summer of 2001 in Hpuston took my Honda away. FEMA gave me not a single penny. I had only liability so the insurance didn't cover its loss.

So I went to buy a brand new Honda Accord again. The cheap interior bothered me. So I went to a nearby VW stealership and test drove Jetta and Passat. I was blown away by the interior quality of VW and it drove much sportier than Honda. I misled myself to buy a Passat without even thinking for a moment about its engine reliability and consumption and maintenance/repair cost. I looked in the internet and the whole world were crying foul with Jetta because of their poor quality due to their assembly in Mexico. I thought I spend more and buy a German-built Passat and I'll be fine.

Within the first 2 months, I had to take the brand new car to the stealership for various break-downs and malfunctions. In the first 4 year I used the warranty 22 times for various repairs. After that, only God knows how much I've spent on repairs.

Oh!:lol: ... and the super quality interior of VW. Everything started to peel-off after 2 years. I have glued the door moldings many times with no avail. :banghead:

 

I always have the same experience when my 98 goes into the shop... so much has broken on it over the years that I am to the point every repair is nearly the last straw with the car... but then I drive a Malibu or Hyundai or something for a week which makes me realize why I put up with the Passat. Even the newer VWs lean a bit towards hard cheaper plastic surfaces in my opinion compared to the old B5 and B5.5.

 

^that was the point I was trying to get across, sometimes I feel fed up with the Passat, but then I realize it is all worth it in the end... at least that is what I tell myself before I go to sleep at night. :lol:

 

at least that is what I tell myself before I go to sleep at night. :lol:

This is officially called self-fulfilling-prophecy.

Do the math and you never can go to your bed again :lol:

 

I never do the math. That's not what I look at when I buy a car. I look at what kind of failures it has, then I decide if I can and will fix them. If I can, I will buy the car based on driving experience. That's what matters most to me, how it drives. I spend a lot of time in my cars. If I bought a car because of reliability, I wouldn't have bought my A4 and my passat. I researched both extensively.

 

If you spend a lot of time in your cars :driving:, then logically wouldn't the engine reliability be the #1 issue to worry about? oke:

Not everyone has the skills and tools to fix the car problems :wrench:. Thus, doing the math matters a lot.

 

I drive rentals. a lot. for work travel.

I like my Passat, even with almost 200K miles on it.

thanks for sharing. :wrench:

 

Yeah, it's funny. My "Mexican" 98 Jetta was the best car I ever owned, just not nearly as fun as my 90 Jetta was to drive. My Passat has cost me some money, cam tensioner, MAF, and now doing CAs and TREs in the next couple of weeks. I replaced the axles, but approaching 200k, that's not unreasonable, and I'm pretty sure the torque converter is going soon. Need to replace the aux fan as well, but that's about it.

I can't wait to have it drive like new again. I still like it more than anything (okay, the 90 may have the edge) I've ever owned. Comfortable, practical, pretty economical, and I don't find the maintenence to be too far out of line. Then again, I've got nearly 700k in 4 VWs. I don't mind stuffing $1500 in this car for another potential 100k, actually $1100ish, $400 is tires and an alignment.

Yeah, I've driven a lot of other cars, and still go back to my VWs. My wife thinks I'm nuts, but I tell her I can't afford an Audi or a BMW. The Germans have got this car thing down.

 

I was forced to drive a Honda this week for the first time in years. Never again!!!! What a pile.

I will take my 03 Passat any day of the week and twice on Sunday. The only car I have driven recently that would make me give up my Passat as a daily driver is a 2003 RS6. Now that is a car. However, having just finished working on the RS6 would make me never want to own one with out a pile a cash.

my $0.02

 

I was forced to drive a Honda this week for the first time in years. Never again!!!! What a pile.

If you drive a Honda for a long time and then suddenly drive a Passat then most probably you would say the same thing (what a pile) about it.

It's a matter of psychological comfort and habit. Giving up habits is simply hard.

To me, VW and Passat in particular is not a reliable vehicle from an engineering stand point. I think the older VW were made much better. After 1997, with introduction of new line of Passat the legend died and we ended up with just memories of quality VW.

I am not defending any car against other here. I am just saying that Passat is an awfully expensive car to maintain and repair compared to other brands.

 

Emry, I hope my choice of words was in no way offensive to you. If they were, then I should have "calibrated" them differently.

 

Take it E-Z. We're cool.

 

buddy just got an 08 civic, he dosent know how to drive stick so he let me drive it for a bit. all i can say is i love my Passat even tho its 6 years older.

 

One scenario that hasn't been brought up yet is crash safety. I have had the good fortunes of not experiencing this myself but reading many accounts here of those that have, it seems that the Passat protects it's inhabitants well. IMO you can't put a price tag on that feature. I do know a man who owned an '04 Passat for 5 days when he got T-boned on the drivers side by a Mercedes M-class. He broke a couple of ribs on his right side from the seatbelt getting pulled into him from the seat airbag. He told me that rescue personnel at the scene were impressed at how well the Passat absorbed the impact from the higher sitting suv.

 

Safety is hard to put a price tag on. I've totaled two Passat wagons, both not my fault. I was rear ended by a guy going 45-50mph and felt just fine the next morning. It took it very well. I did smack my forehead on the steering wheel pretty good.

I get a little irritated when people buy a geo metro or other small commuter car in order to save gas/money. If you ever get rear ended by a guy going 50 mph in one of those I wonder how much gas/money you ended up saving after you're in the hospital for a month. Maybe it would pay for your coffin though.

My main reason for keeping my Passat is this site. I fix my own car because of this place. Not too many cars out there have such a vast amount of info in one site.

 

I'm driving a Honda Civic while my Passat is awaiting its fate (totaled or to-be-repaired) and it's about as fun as... well... it's not fun at all.

I can't wait to get my Passat back or get a new VW

 

When I bought my 90 Jetta, I test drove a Nissan Stanza right afterwards. The Stanza was replaced with the Altima which is a much better car. The Stanza was Honda/Toyota boring to drive. Shortest new car test drive I ever had. Pulled out of the dealer's lot, went around the block, back into the lot.

Wife had a 1st gen Altima later on. That was a good car. Not as satisfying as a VW, but about the closest you well get on the other side of the pond.

 

Driving a German car is a QUALITY OF LIFE issue with me. It's akin to deciding where you are going to live. Yeah, certain places are less expensive to live in, but really... do you really want to live there? (I'll refrain from naming any cities, states or regions for obvious reasons). Yes, German cars are admittedly not as reliable as their Japanese counterparts. Yes, they're more expensive to maintain. But they're WORTH IT. It's what I choose to drive and it's very personal. Some people don't give a **** what they drive everyday. Those of us who drive German cars generally DO care about what we drive.

PS - not to beat a dead horse to death, but I sat on a 6 hour journey in a rented Chevy Malibu sedan this past week on a family outing to Mt. Rainier - my sister's rental. If given a choice between that brand new car and my nine-year-old B5, I'd take my VW any day without hesitation. That Malibu was a buzzy, cheap plastico piece of sh**. And my back was aching after a 1/2 an hour.

 

Driving a German car is a QUALITY OF LIFE issue with me. It's akin to deciding where you are going to live. Yeah, certain places are less expensive to live in, but really... do you really want to live there? (I'll refrain from naming any cities, states or regions for obvious reasons). Yes, German cars are admittedly not as reliable as their Japanese counterparts. Yes, they're more expensive to maintain. But they're WORTH IT. It's what I choose to drive and it's very personal. Some people don't give a **** what they drive everyday. Those of us who drive German cars generally DO care about what we drive.

Damn, I'm finding myself agreeing with you all day today. As someone who drives a crapload, it is super important for me to be comfortable and to have fun while I'm stuck in the car 3 hours a day...I find myself hating all cars that aren't German. Well...I do enjoy a nice Lexus...so if i had to go Japanese, that would be the one. But for the enjoyment/price, can't beat V-dub. I'm trying to get my wife to let me trade in our 3 yr old Escape and get her a Jetta :thumbup:

 

Agreed 100%

 

Going from a passat to anything less than an audi is a stretch. I rented a 2008 Toyota Highlander for about a month in December, it was nice. But you can tell the diff between a well made, over engineered 10 yo German car and a decently made efficiently designed 1 yo Japanese car.

 

In response to the OP, I am probably one of the few people on this board who currently owns both. I have a 2001 Passat 1.8T Tip, and a 2005 Hyundai Elantra GT 5-spd. Both are fine cars, but comparing them is apples and oranges. I bought both new, and the Passat cost twice as much as the Elantra (24K vs. 12K). The Passat currently has over 90k miles, the Elantra about 36K. The Passat has required the most maintenance and repairs of any car I have owned, and I bought my 1st car in 1968, and have kept some over 15 years. The Elantra has required oil changes and a coolant change. I have spent over $8000 on the Passat, and less than $200 on the Hyundai. The Passat rides and drives better without a doubt, but not twice as good as the Elantra. A lot of that excellent Passat ride is due to the current tires, Bridgestone Potenza 960 AS Pole Positions, the number one rated ultra high performance tire on tirerack.com. The Elantra has OEM Michelin MXV4's, which are a little noisy by comparison. The Elantra burns reg gas and can get 38mpg on the highway. The Passat burns premium and can get about 32mpg at best.

I could go on and on. The Passat beats the Elantra in most categories, but like I said it is not a fair comparison. It costs twice as much, but it's not twice as good - maybe 1 1/2 times better at best.

If I had to let one go, it would likely be the Passat. In fact, I did let it go (kinda), in that I recently gave it to my daughter for a college graduation gift (she drove it her senior year anyway). Since then (May), we've replaced TRE's, a CV boot, a coolant flange, a leaky VCG, and a few other valves, hoses, etc. for around $1000 all total. It would have been much more if the flange and VCG had not been covered under the powertrain warranty (for which we are grateful). She lives in Indianapolis now - and I live in Florida. I haven't seen the car since XMAS, so I can't do all the preventative stuff like most of you. She is bringing it home in August, so I'll give it a good look then. If the next 3 months are as expensive as the last 3 months, might have to trade it, as the girl needs reliable transportation. I'd give her my Elantra, and take back the Passat, but she doesn't want a 5spd. I wouldn't mind doing the maintenance/repairs on the Passat that much, but she can't really afford to, and I can't do them anymore since I'm now a thousand miles away.

I still like both cars, but with the economy and all, cheap is good too. You know the old saying - "Cheap, reliable, fast - pick two". The Elantra is cheap and reliable. The Passat is NOT cheap or particularly reliable, and it's only fast if you chip it.

I would not recommend a Passat to anyone who could not or would not do their own maintenance and repairs, unless they enjoy spending lots of dough. If you DIY, it's not a bad car at all, and kinda fun. But for a reliable daily driver, particularly a young female, the Passat wouldn't be my first choice. For a gearhead - no problem.

 

I bought both new, and the Passat cost twice as much as the Elantra (24K vs. 12K)...the Passat has required the most maintenance and repairs of any car I have owned...I have spent over $8000 on the Passat, and less than $200 on the Hyundai...If you DIY, it's not a bad car at all, and kinda fun...For a gearhead - no problem.

I bought my new 2002 1.8 Tipo $26K and ever since I have spent probably as much as you on repairs. The only choice I have right now to drive the car until it dies. So I'm stuck with it for the next 10 years or so. But how much will I spend on repairs in next decade to keep it running?

 

This is an interesting thread. Any time any car needs repairs, it's a PITA. Doesn't matter where it was made.

I've had my 2003 B5.5 1.8T 5spd since new and have had remarkably few problems with it, in retrospect. Power steering pump started leaking and was replaced under warranty. A few recalls. The only major things was that the ECU quit in a very ungraceful manner, and that was a PITA, but all cars have them now, and most are nade by the same guys that make the on of the VW. So, I figure my number came up. The VW 1.8 T is a complex beast. Any turbocharged motor is complex.

Prior to this, I had a 1997 Saturn SL-2 5 spd. An unremarkable car. It had a timimg chain, but the tensioner needed attention from time to time. It was fine until the head cracked along an exhauset valve seat on the GM universal 1.9 l 4 cyl. Non-repairable given thevalue of the car in 2003.

Prior to that was a 1984 Honda Accord 5 spd. I replaced the clutch and CV joints at 130k mi, and had various and sundry things break that needed fixing now and then. Timimg belt every 60 k mi, but nothing major. It blew a head gasket which then blew a freeze plug. The motor was probably repairable, but we found so much rust in the car that it was deemed unsafe to drive. Said my Indy shop "We're not sure what's keeping it on the suspension."

Before that, a 1973 Mazda RX2 4 spd. Anybody remember those? Some rust. MacPhereson struts wore out early. 2nd gear synchro was way too soft. Rear shocks got a bit soft and needed replacing. Disc brake calipers got sticky. Then, after about 140k mi, it started to burn a fair bit of oil. But, I still love the Wankel!

But then, I own a 1946 Cessna 140 airplane. You want to talk about exspensive maintenance? Try anything with "Aviation" written on it.

 

Before that, a 1973 Mazda RX2 4 spd. Anybody remember those?

I was only 10 in 1973. :icon_eek:

But then, I won a 1946 Cessna 140 airplane. You want to talk about exspensive maintenance? Try anything with "Aviation" written on it.

Amazing. I always thought you only put gas in Cessnas and fly. :driving:

 

I've had my 1999 1.8T Passat for five years now and I've had very few problems that have led me to consider getting rid of the car.

I bought it in 2004 with 85,000 miles for £4,500. I've now done 150,000. Still in stock condition except buying some 15" alloys from ebay with Michelin Pilots (bargain)

Despite the mileage both bodywork and interior is still relatively immaculate, probably helped that I am anal when it comes to keeping my car clean inside and out - sothing that I am always complemented on. The only very slight bodywork issue I have is a bit of rust on one of the black window jamb trims, which I dare say can be replaced if really necessary.

Mechanically the car has been fine, no issues with the engine, except once with a failing themostat sticking shut which I spotted just in time (i.e. temp rising just above 90C).

The control arms were replaced free under recall by VW about 4 years ago, thanks to finding out about the issue on this site.

I've also had the dreaded water in the rear footwell, which I managed to cure myself by replacing the foam pollen filter housing seal with proper sealing cord, given free by VW. I also cleaned the rubber links that protect cables from the door pillars to the doors, which I suspected were also letting water in.

A couple of brake hoses have been replaced - wear and tear.

I've had the 'bouncing-open' rear door problem - fixed with plenty of WD40.

I also had to replace the battery last year but considering I got 4 years out of the last one, this is quite normal.

Sometimes this leads me to think whether I have been relatively lucky. Then again my wife has a huge old 1997 Audi A6 2.5TDi 5 cylinder (the Audi 100 shape), and that is also reliable despite having over 170,000. We bought that for £2,300 three years ago with 130,000 miles and that has more than proved its worth. It even gets up to 60 mpg (UK) on long runs. Ok its getting paint bubbles round the wheelarches and has seen more than its fair share of scrape and runs and car park dings, but when cleaned and polished, it still looks good.

I'm hence a german car fan. I've previously driven:

1979 Toyota Corolla 1.3 DX Liftback (KE70 series) - my first set of wheels.

1989 Volvo 340 1.7 GL with a gutless and thirsty Renault engine (dont ask why!);

1990 Audi 80 1.8i - One of the best I had except the Passat, altough I had a Cylinder head issue, fuel pipe split and Cat was on its way out - hence I got rid after three years.

1999 Citroen Xara 1.9TDi which was very thirsty for a Diesel, bit fell off inside and out (typical of French cars);

2002 Vauxhall Vectra 2.2 Dti - no end of problems with engine going into limp mode

My best experience have been with VAG cars, so i'm inclined to stick with them. I quite fancy an A4 next 2.0 TDi would be nice - a few years old so someone else has paid for the depreciation!

 

I've had my 1999 1.8T Passat for five years now and I've had very few problems that have led me to consider getting rid of the car.

From your descriptions I wouldn't call those "few". Also, with the reported mileage I wonder how many times you have replaced the timing belt.

Sometimes this leads me to think whether I have been relatively lucky.

I suggest you replace "sometimes" with "ALWAYS". :angel:

I'm hence a German car fan.

This is the history's irony that an English becomes a German fan :lol:

 

I don't know, it looks like a GT2871r will be good for 400HP on a Genesis coupe. Get a track package which includes LSD, bigger brakes, 6-speed etc... and the fact that it's RWD, $23,750(US) and around $30,000 (Can) makes it a pretty tempting proposition.

 

I agree, I think the new genesis coupe looks sick. It seems like it would perform well too after watching the SPEED test drive of it.

 

Mmmmmmm, black plastic... oke:

 

I don't think this thread was an invitation to bash the passat or VW in general for costly maint and repairs. I think the whole reason was "You're tired of your passat? I got something that'll make you change your mind."

 

But reasonable critique should be tolerated though. Passat has definitely it's own plus points but no one can deny its repair/maintenance cost is way above average compared to other cars.

 

'Quality of Life' is EXACTLY it. I'm comfortable enough now that the 'joy' of driving the Passat isn't offset by the possible mechanical headaches. If I were still working at a call centre, I'd be all OVER the new Hyundais/Hondas/Toyotas/Nissans. They're more than 'good enough', and offer rock-solid reliability to boot.

As for comparing a Passat to an Elantra, you're out of it's league. Compare it to a Sonata or Azera instead, which are more in it's league. Then remember to give them credit for the price you pay. However, it is WELL KNOWN that Asian cars can drive 'almost' as well as their Euro counterparts, but trade better reliability for that 'die-hard' road-feel that we get. Now consider that 90% of the population are NOT gear-heads, and you'll see why the Asians are dominating. I was comparing a '99 Accord V6 against my Passat, and the only thing that swayed me was that I liked the 4-cylinder's fuel economy, and the SLIGHTLY better feel.

And to ixi, who is 'irked' by people buying econo-cars. Get out of your frickin' pre-historic Ameri-shell that requires everyone to have cars the size of Mammoths. If our governments would actually require people to LEARN how to drive rather than 'just turn 16', we could be safe on BICYCLES on the highways. And the environment/oil reserves wouldn't have to suffer so much.

 

When i get tired of my passat, i look for new mods :lol:

 

You guys are silly and have a LOT to learn.

First off, there is no such a thing as GERMAN or KOREAN.....country of origin is IRRELEVANT.

To some, feel and soft dash is more important then reliability...to others reliability is #1. Just because you want first 2 doesn't make the car better etc.

Of course comparing these 2 is a mistake to begin with. Go ahead and compare the Passat to Sonata and DEF pay attention to price AND warranty.

Another thing, IMO German makers have been downgrading their interiors (BMW especially...is now HORRIBLE). Koreans have been NOTHING but improving theirs.

Personally I feel that Germans in general went down Asian interior design road. Even new Audi interiors do NOTHING for me (from design standpoint).

As far as quality of materials. You tell me which is better, one that's soft and expensive that wears out within few years and is VERY expensive to replace....or one that's not as soft and cheap to replace BUT you won't have to do that as it won't wear out in 2-3 years.

Sorry but as nice as my Passat interior might be, it takes a BIG hit on "durability"....now you see why I don't really care for interiors all that much anymore.

I also have kids, so it REALLY gets tested. General rule of thumb, if I can't replace it easily and cheaply...I don't buy it. I assume it will be broken TOMORROW.

My Passat is doing Weekend/fun car duties now AND it can't even do that very well at this point.

oke:

Car Enthusiasts ALL over the world AND many forums are recognizing Korean cars and speak highly of them. You would have to be a total EURO snob to under estimate these cars...

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You guys are silly and have a LOT to learn.

First off, there is no such a thing as GERMAN or KOREAN.....country of origin is IRRELEVANT.

GERMAN or KOREAN, why are you yelling? The point you make is off topic and makes no sense. Country of origin is relevant, countries have a reputation for building a certain kind of car, which is why they are referenced whn talking about a car. You expect certain things from a German car. Luxurious interior great road manners, higher repair bills, etc. Japanese cars, cheaper interiors, reliable as the sun, not expensive to maintain. In the same boat, they are boring to drive, not much is going on in the handling department, and I wouldn't want to take one past 120.

To some, feel and soft dash is more important then reliability...to others reliability is #1. Just because you want first 2 doesn't make the car better etc.

Of course comparing these 2 is a mistake to begin with. Go ahead and compare the Passat to Sonata and DEF pay attention to price AND warranty.

Actually it does make the car better, to whoever feels that way. To some people, a crappy interior and no acceleration are not a problem, for them. They view their cars like they view their refrigerators, the cheaper to maintain and less times they break down the better. They don't care if the car is fun to drive or has approximately the same acceleration and handling as a refrigerator.

Another thing, IMO German makers have been downgrading their interiors (BMW especially...is now HORRIBLE). Koreans have been NOTHING but improving theirs.

Personally I feel that Germans in general went down Asian interior design road. Even new Audi interiors do NOTHING for me (from design standpoint).

^Do you really mean that or are you just trying to be a troll. Sit down in the new Honda Accord, tell me what that dash reminds you of... Oh that's right a BMW 5 Series. As for Koreans going up in quality for interior, that is not saying much when you started off at zero. There is a reason everyone compares their interior to Audi. There is a reason no kids are standing in front of any honda/acura/kia/hyundai dealership window and thinking to themselves "wow, I want one of those when I grow up." Look at the new 7 series and tell me that they are downgrading German interiors, no one will agree with you as that is simply incorrect.

As far as quality of materials. You tell me which is better, one that's soft and expensive that wears out within few years and is VERY expensive to replace....or one that's not as soft and cheap to replace BUT you won't have to do that as it won't wear out in 2-3 years.

Sorry but as nice as my Passat interior might be, it takes a BIG hit on "durability"....now you see why I don't really care for interiors all that much anymore.

I also have kids, so it REALLY gets tested. General rule of thumb, if I can't replace it easily and cheaply...I don't buy it. I assume it will be broken TOMORROW.

My Passat is doing Weekend/fun car duties now AND it can't even do that very well at this point.

oke:

Car Enthusiasts ALL over the world AND many forums are recognizing Korean cars and speak highly of them. You would have to be a total EURO snob to under estimate these cars...

You go ahead and buy an Elantra, I can guarrantee, you it's interior will not hold up as well as a Passat's. As for your Euro snob statement, I don't have to under estimate the car. I have ACTUALLY DRIVEN both cars. Go ahead and test drive ANY hyundai, excluding the genesis sedan, and tell me any statement I have made has been false.


As for my comparison between the Passat, and the Elantra, you are right it was not a fair comparison. I was comparing a car with 105,000 miles, that has a blue book of approx. 3-5 grand give or take, which I have had since new, versus a 16,000 brand new car. How is this unfair? I am comparing cars based on their current value, not new value. How much depreciation do you think my friend suffered since he bought it 3 months ago? 10%, 20%, 25% How much do you think it will be worth in five years? I am willing to bet less than my Passat is now. The point of this thread was to point out how well the Passat was/is made and has held up to modern competition(if that is what you want to call it) Bottom line Hyundai made a car that is worse in every category except for servicing, which IMO is not a great accomplishment, when you are trying to tell the world how great your cars are and how you are scaring the competition away.


Car Enthusiasts ALL over the world AND many forums are recognizing Korean cars and speak highly of them. You would have to be a total EURO snob to under estimate these cars...

And yet the Genesis coupe placed last in every comparo it went against any car, even the Mustang which has a live axle. :rofl:

 

My car is in the stealership for 80K service. They loaned me a '09 jetta and my '02 still has a better drive and feel to it.

 

If they give you a Malibu and you drive it for a while, you would say the same thing. It is all psychological that one simply gets used to a certain hardware features and feels most comfortable.

 

I've crunched an exhaustive amount of numbers on my Passat over the years, most of it over the past 3 years. Basically, in order to justify a "new" car, my maintenance would have to exceed roughly $3k per year for AT LEAST a year simply to justify the change.

I could probably switch to a newer used car, but with that comes re-familiarization with DIY, systems, online forums, etc.

I can pretty safely say I'm not thrilled with VW's maintenance--not just the cost, but the stupid little things that shouldn't fail so readily (CCM, CAs, ABS, TREs, etc), the mediocre interior durability, and the "unnecessary complexity" built into the car. I probably won't buy a VW again, but I'll sure as hell drive the wheels off of this one. Like many of you, there are few NEW cars in this price range that I enjoy as much as my 11-year-old Passat.