Whatever...today it is not that difficult to have a car last that long, but for us VW owners - that fully galvanized body allows us to keep what otherwise might have rotted away.

 

today it is not that difficult to have a car last that long

Today's cars have lot more sensors and electronics and by far more complicated engines and transmissions. That's an invite to more enthropy as the interactions among so many devices and parts makes it more vulnerable to breaks. I doubt these new cars last beyond 10 years in good shape.

 

I'm pretty sure they aren't referring the 1.8T used in the B5. (For starters, the pic is of a B6.) Frankly, the 1.8T in the B5, because of the sludging issues, t-belt tensioner problems, and the earlier coil pack fiascoes, will not exactly go down in history as the most bullet-proof engine.

Yes, if you keep the sludge monster at bay, change the t-belt on time (with the improved parts), don't drive it too hard, and have updated coil packs, the engine can last for 200k, 300k, easy. But that's nothing remarkable at all these days, and it requires a bit of luck.

 

I'm pretty sure they aren't referring the 1.8T used in the B5.

Yes they are referring to the new Passats which are by far more improved compared to B5. Nonetheless, I highly doubt my next car would be German!

 

The 1.8T is a reliable engine if you maintain it properly. I think most modern cars can and will pass 250 000 miles if maintained properly.

Those car's TB was a chain that lasted forever not a belt.

Yes, and the VR6-engine has a timing chain that was supposed to last "forever". We know today this isn't true - chains stretch over time and after a while the tensioner maxes out - if you are unlucky the chain jumps the sprockets and ruins your whole day...

My point is, nothing lasts "forever" but nostalgia.

 

There is a difference in engineering design on new vs old cars. Old cars were build "as good as possible" but the reliability wasn't that great because of the quality of parts and technology. The new cars have a much stricter design that focuses on efficiency a lot more, both for users (fuel usage, low maintenance etc) and for manufacturers (no "oversized" parts anymore, high tech solutions to prone failure systems). I would always prefer newer cars than to the old generation ones, but I love (and encourage) progress. After all, a Ford Focus nowadays has 3 times the gears/ratios on an A/T than the most expensive car 40 yrs a go. Not to mention ride quality, power ratios from new engines, transmission shifting quality, handling etc.
I also think that what Emry says makes sense, but it's not necessarily because people can't afford to fix their old cars. I think it's mostly because people that can afford to fix their cars want to buy new cars

 

FWIW, I think the B5 is a more reliable car than the B6.
And I wouldn't trust too much a report from a source that shows a Passat B6 and says the 1.8T (found in B5) is one of the most reliable.

 

And I wouldn't trust too much a report from a source that shows a Passat B6 and says the 1.8T (found in B5) is one of the most reliable.

The 1.8T was only for B5? I didn't know that.

 

I would take these publications with a grain of salt. My grandfather gave me his 1976 Triumph TR7 when I was a teen and even though it was named one of 50 of the most unreliable cars by Time magazine, I had the car running until I sold it in 2012. I've probably spent more money on maintenance on the Passat but it is my daily driver and has more miles on it than the TR7 ever did. It is difficult for me to say which was the more reliable car. I would never have daily driven the TR7 because the shock towers were rusty and I was always fiddling with the adjustment screws to make it idle right. On the other hand, if I were to ever run into tuning problems with the 1.8t, I would have to go to a tuning specialist because I do not know how to modify the electronics.

Just some food for thought. I think older cars were never built to last all that long but properly maintained, they can last as long as some of the newer cars these days.

 

Just some food for thought. I think older cars were never built to last all that long but properly maintained, they can last as long as some of the newer cars these days.

As you said if you do proper maintenance any car could last forever. But the cost of maintenance increases exponentially when there are significantly more components in an engine compared to a simpler engine. But that is the price you have to pay to have all the luxury of modern era cars.

 

The 1.8 liter 4 cylinder turbo Passat is one of the most reliable cars in the range

 

My father-in-law was a mechanic also. He would not disagree that the bulk of his work was easier. (Because most of it consisted of the much larger amounts of maintenance older cars required.) But he also does not have any starry-eyed notions about cars from that time being more reliable. They required a lot more work for miles driven, which is exactly what you would expect with cars that headed to the scrapyard after 100k-ish. (Counting the number of years a car "lasts" without considering how much it's driven, is pointless.)

And there are plenty of issues with older cars that require tinkering; intermittent running problems under load are downright painful to diagnose without an OBD system.

As you said if you do proper maintenance any car should last forever. But the cost of maintenance increases exponentially when there are significantly more components in an engine compared to a simpler engine. But that is the price you have to pay to have all the luxury of modern era cars.

I don't know how I can put this any simpler: This is ONLY true if the quality of the parts and design cannot increase to keep up. But that is absolutely not the case. If it were, the useful life and reliability of a car would have decreased dramatically as they featured more parts. Instead it is utterly routine for a car to go to 200-300k with nothing more than cheap wear parts and scheduled maintenance. The idea of a 1960's passenger car engine routinely (with no special care) lasting for 300k without a complete engine tear-down and rebuild (possibly more than one of them) would have been astounding. Everything on a modern car lasts longer: tires, paint, belts, hoses, engines, alternators, batteries, interior parts, electrical bits, fuel pumps, radiators, transmissions, ignition parts, clutches, brakes, sheet metal, fluids, EVERYTHING, except, apparently, nostalgia.

"More reliable" cars would not have been scrapped after 100k or so. (Barring body damage, few junked cars today have such puny mileage.)

P.S. No, the shuttle was not prohibited from going to the moon because of reliability concerns. Because of the size of the payloads it was designed to (and did) carry from the start, the idea of building a rocket that could transport enough fuel to get the shuttle, and a payload, to the moon and back was (and is) unfeasible. The Saturn V booster was designed for a 45T payload. "Dry", the shuttle + payload weighed 115T. (Even without payload, the shuttle was 82T) It was designed from the start to "shuttle" loads between earth and orbit and was never intended to carry enough fuel for a lunar trip. It could not also handle re-entry from a moon trip without a retro burn (requiring even MORE fuel.)

 

If these are your opinion then OK but whether they are hard facts I totally disagree. The modern cars after 100K miles may not go to scrapyard but need substantial maintenance cost for average driver. You may not feel that because you do most of the maitenance on your Passat yourself but that's not the average driver. In fact lot of people get rid of their cars after 100K exactly because of the failure rates and expenses.

P.S. Voyager was launched in 1976 and is still in operation exactly due to the fact that its design was simple with minimum reliable electronics on board. How many Mars landers or other space vehicles have failed in recent years? It's a known simple engineering fact that MTBF (mean time between failure) increases with complexity.

 

In the diesel truck world reliability has dropped since 2005 ish.

When you ask what are the most reliable trucks, you never hear anything about new trucks.

And as a mechanic I would say that while the newer cars are easier to fix they are more complex. And a major pia to work on.

 

Biggest reason today's diesels are less reliable* is Gov't regulations (EPA) and the extra equipment (DPF, Cat Conv. regen cycle for NOx reduction) required to comply.

*Perceived reliability goes hand-in-hand with whether required maintenance was performed at specified intervals.

Re: Entropy. I prefer to do all the work on my car when possible. This limits the degree of disorder and generally reduces the potential for SNAFUs. Example: Had to have the right CV axle replaced about a year ago (while I was in BFE w/no tools). Mechanic removed and neglected to reinstall the right front brake caliper spring (reason unknown).:crazy: Caliper and pad have been rattling for 3 months...but GreenCar will be coming through for me on that soon.

 

Emry, you are an interesting character. You make posts that generate some responses, and you argue your way through with almost everyone who has not the exact same opinion as yourself.

You tend to recommend that members here are better served to have a professional fix our cars, and while we tend to ignore that, you tell us that our choice of brand & model was flawed. I might add that you frequently vasilate between praising and denigrating your own VW. I know this behavoir, and so do I )

I am considering setting you to my ignore list, but I also have issues with others here so perhaps this is just me having a shorter fuse of late. Lastly, if you have nothing useful or positive to add, say nothing.

 

I express my opinion and others do too. I don't see any issue with that. I praise VW for its good characteristics and criticize it for its flawed ones. If that bothers you then you better don't read my posts. That's what I do with the posts that are not interesting to me. But unlike yourself I never tell others what to say or do and what not.

 

I own an 03 V6 B.5 5speed. It's the best car I ever had. It's also the most complex. I would find it extremely difficult to keep the car without the assistance of this board and contributors. I'm sure some of you will agree. Thanks