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Leaky HID assemb ly on W8, VW seems to be in denial....

2K views 21 replies 12 participants last post by  roketdub8  
#1 ·
Curious if anyone has had success in resolving this issue.

*/rant = on

I noticed last weekend when it rained that my passenger side headlight was leaking water (there was water all over the interior of the HID assembly - passenger side only not the drivers side).

So... I've been procrastinating on taking my car in for the coil pack thing so I set that up for this week and take the car in yesterday and ask them to look at the headlight, describe the problem and they say "Oh ya no problem we'll take care of all these things... ".

So .. I go away and come back later and pick up the car and the guy says: "Oh ... about the headlamp, we're not supposed to replace those, here's the tech bulletin" which I read and it says that under certain meteorogical conditions you can get condensation on the interior of the HID assembly - turn on the headlights for 10 minutes and it'll evaporate - do not replace headlamps for this problem.

But the tech bulletin is talking about something different. For my problem, I can have the headlamps on for an hour and it's still wet in there. I explain this to the tech guy, he says sorry, call VW, so I call them this morning and explain and he wants me to take it back, etc... I tell him OK fine but jesus man now I'm shopping around for a tech that can diagnose the problem properly (or perhaps more accurately I'm shopping around for a tech who WANTS to diagnose the problem properly...) can you throw in a rental car so I'm not put out too awful much as I'm shopping around for a tech that'll do that? He then informs me that VW is ADAMANT about their rental policy and this wouldn't qualify. Adamant. That's the word he used to describe VW's policy about providing rental cars to customers as a courtesy for the inconvenience of having a new car break.

I have a problem with my new car and VW is adamant. How's that for adding insult to injury?

*/rant=off

So ... I dunno... I feel like this is a lot of hassle over a headlamp. But the main thing I'm wondering is if anyone has had any success in getting this kind of stuff resolved in the Bay Area?

Would appreciate any info on that (esp the name of the dealer that diagnosed the problem correctly and fixed it...).

Thanks.

Charlie
 
#3 ·
I can't imagine your leaking headlight will be long for this world with the humidity present with the heat and water inside the housing. At some point the bulb will get corroded and the headlight will fail. Hopefully while it's still underwarranty.
 
#4 ·
I had a little condensation in my right fog light. I stopped by my dealer on a Saturday with no appointment. They were prepared to replace it on the spot but it was not in stock. I went back the following Saturday and they took care of it in about an hour & a half. I killed time by driving & playing with 2 Tauregs....
 
#5 ·
You need to show them that what you are dealing with is not condensation. That is if you can find a service advisor or manager that knows the meaning of condensation.

I'd bring it back and tell them that you want to do a test. If it clears up in 10-20 minutes of having it on, then you'll be satisfied... if not then they have to agree that the housing must be cracked somewhere, and they have to replace it.

Either that or find the crack yourself, and then show them that it's crasked, or on of the seals is not sealing. It's most likely at one of the ultrasonic welds between the opague housing and the lense.

... I have yet to find a service advisor that has his own cognative ability
 
#7 ·
maybe you can be 'creative' and find ways to, uhm, accelerate the light's, erh, uhm, limited lifetime?

if they won't deal ethically with you, play at their level. fight fire with fire.

maybe.
 
#8 ·
Problem with that it, if they spot any "damage" they'll be even more set on denying replacement. I know it's taking up your time but my suggestion is this: Take the car back to them and have them hose it down in their wash bay so they can see how much water goes into it. Although I'm a service advisor, it's not my chosen career, simply a very good paying job to get where I want to be. People that scream and yell do not get as far as someone who "manipulates" the system..... Just a word of advice... :wink:
 
#9 ·
Check to see if there is any cracks in the headlamp casing or behind the lights. There has to be a reason why water is getting in there. Try opening up the casing plastic cover behind the headlights and let hot air go in and evaporate the water. If that is not your problem, then you have to prove that the lights have a Defect. The more you complain to VW of America, the harder they will come down on the dealership you went to. Freedom of speech man, Speak you mind away. Let them know that the customer is always right, especially in this case, that they really need to help you out on this. If you can't get a rental, screw it. Just make sure they fix the damn headlight. I hate it when the dealer never wants to cough up the money to pay for defects. They never want to lose money, or they will find a way to ghetto rigg it. Tell them you want brand new lights, not used, old, sitting in a corner lights, BRAND SPANKIN NEW ONES.

ok I said my piece. Good luck

chris
 
#10 ·
if a light burns out, its anyone's guess how it got burned out. 'creative' ways...

but with a lot of standing water in there, it would be hard to me to imagine denying a claim if the whole unit is burned out.

if they want to acknowledge a fault of their build or design, deal honestly with them. all I'm saying is that VW is lowering the mark by denying what they know is a problem (on this car, specifically). its underhanded for them to deny you coverage and its underhanded for you to take things into your own hands. if they didn't pull stunt A you wouldn't have to pull B. that's all I'm saying..
 
#11 ·
Seems like a proper fix is under way

Well... when I finally cooled off after talking to the VW "customer care advocate" (a title which, curiously, doesn't specify which side he's advocating for...) I decided to call the service manager at the dealership. I told him what was going on and told him I'd be happy to demonstrate the problem for him if he's got a hose on the premesis we can use to simulate the rain that made me aware of the problem. He said sure and so I went over and demonstrated the problem. Within a few minutes he was on the phone with whoever it is at VW that he has to talk to to get clearance on the warranty replacement. It seemed to take a bit of convincing but after a few minutes he had VW on board. The lights is on order and I have an appointment for next week to get it installed.

As the manager was writing up the appointment, he informed me that since it'll be about a 4 hour job :shock: to replace the light he'll provide me with a loaner car no problem (some kind of VW - I had a jetta for the coil replacement job, which was just fine with me....).

So... I guess I'll feel better when the work is all done and I've driven in rain wthout seeing the problem recurr, but at this point it does seem that it's basically resolved in terms of agreeing about whether there is a problem that tiggers the warranty or not.

Once I got talking with the service manager, it seemed that he was truly interested in really figuring out what was going on and making sure the problem was resolved in a technically correct and fair way (he was able to discern the difference between condensation and a leak, so that helped....). I'd say it was a refreshing change from everyone else I spoke with at VW about the problem. I figure if I have any issues in the future, I'll just deal directly with him.

Thanks all for your inputs and suggestions.

Charlie
 
#13 ·
shit, even for me, a first-timer, updating my regular lites with euro HID's, at a friend's house, it took way less than 4 hours to replace lites! the bumper comes off, its true, but at a stealership that should take all of half hour, start to finish. they just unscrew and unplug, once the bumper is off. and to aim them is maybe another 15 minutes, at the very very most.

Image


http://www.grateful.net/03.24.03/

something smells fishy about that 4hour quote.
 
#14 ·
It could lead to very expensive repairs if not fixed early enough -- the ballast and bulbs alone are very pricey items.
It definately should be covered in your warranty if you have a W8, or dealer-installed OEM.

You should check on the underside of the headlight assembly, you'll need to feel around for it as you can't really see it as there is very little room in there. There should be a black rubber tube that sticks out, that is the tube that lets out moisture from inside the housing. Shake it or bend around a bit to dislodge anything that might be stuck in there -- it might be just clogged.

Call VWOA if you are still are getting anywhere with your dealership -- they usually get the ball rolling faster and lets your dealership know you are serious and don't want to be screwed around. It also relieves you from any future problems with your headlights since your case has been reported and documented on their files.
I got my Homelink visor replaced for free after 32,000 since I reported a problem with it -- the dealership whom I bought from couldn't find a problem with it when it was new.
 
#15 ·
Maybe 4 hours is a bit much... I dunno...

There was something he mentioend that seemed not quite right to me (and the salesman told me this same thing when I bought the car...). He referred to some comlex system in there that is used to vertically stabilize the headlight beam (to keep it level if the car is boucing due to road conditions) and also in the horizontal direction to basically aim the lights in the direction you turn the wheel.

In my experience driving the thing I've never noticed either of those features. I did look in my bentley and it referred to a setting in there that is market dependant which angles the lights a bit depending on whether the market is right hand drive or left hand drive. It may be that the Toureg or the Phaeton has the HID dynamic control feature but I don't think the W8 does - or at least I can't see how mine does. He may have assumed that the Toureg and W8 are the same in this respect.. they do seem to have the same HID assembly.

But really...... what he charges back to vw is between him and them. I'm sure VW has a pretty good idea of what he should charge for the job, so the chance of VW being overcharged for the job seems slim to me. If he makes a mistake in the billing, I'd guess they'll catch it for sure.

Or... he may have just figured estimating 4 hours and giving me a rental car was a cheap way to keep me from hovering around the dealership while they do the work, which if nothing else would give him more flexibility in how to schedule the job.

I figure as long as it goes per the current plan I'll be satisfied that - despite the initial hassle - the maker basically stood behind the product.

Charlie
 
#16 ·
he's talking about the auto-levelling, which is required by the US for HID lites.

still, its just wires and sensors that are ALREADY there. installing new ones takes time, but you don't NEED new ones - just new LITES. the sensors are not on the lites.
 
#17 ·
OK. Just thought I'd mention that I got my new headlamp assembly installed today and all seems to be well. Not too bad all in all.

I would've preferred if they fixed it without VW pushing back and making me take it to the service manager, but for all I know they may have had a fair amount of claims due to simple condensation which isn't their problem really. Once the service manager got involved and made the determination that the problem was really what I said it was (a leak) and not what VW thought it was (condensation), it was all smooth from there.

So... done deal.

Charlie
 
#18 ·
Charlie, I'm having the same issue with my W8's headlights. It's like condensation appears in the right lens when the car gets wet. When I finally get an appointment with the dealership, I'm going to have them replace the entire assembly.

My transmission is also starting to slip as well, so I'm going to have them fix it as well.
 
#19 ·
Based on my experience it may save time to just go directly to the service manager and demonstrate the problem, letting him know that you are aware of the tech bulletin but you're also convinced that your problem is a leak and not merely condensation. You may need to do what I did, which is to take a few minutes with a hose to demonstrate. Another approach might be to do the bit with the hose at your own place, drive the car over and demonstrate that even with the lights on for a long time, the water won't go away (the tech bulletin claims that for the problem it describes it should clear up in 10 minutes of having the lights on - in my case I could have the lights on for an hour and it had no effect).

That should work for the light. Best of luck with that and the transmission.

Charlie
 
#22 ·
When its wet out my bi-xenons always get condensation on the bottom edge of both lights. I might have to have them swap them out.

Charlie, did you get an all new assembly? New bulb, ballast, ignitor? Or just new assemblies that they swapped your old hardware into?