Dot 4 or above. I would just get VW stuff and the Blue ATE from ESC tuning

 

I'd be careful about the "above" part. Don't think you can put DOT5 in our cars, unless you want to replace most of the brake system when it fails. It is silicone based IIRC.

 

looks can be deceiving but it is best to change every two years regardless.

 

Gole ATE 4

I use the Gold ATE 4 gold in most all of my cars. The only reason the blue exists is for racing. It helps pit crews see the fuid better and know that blue is brake fluid. It tends to stain and discolor everything (like your resevior).

The Gold ATE is the the same fluid with the same opreating temps, just no blue dye.

I have one race car that I have brake temp problems with that the ATE will not work on. I had to go to a real expensive Motul fluid for that one. However, that was a need basis. On most all of my cars (race or street) the ATE Gold works well, and it is fairly cheap.

I agree with the previous post. Change it every 2 years (or yearly if you drive a lot). It sucks up water from the atmosphere and starts to degrade in performance, and rot your brake syste from the inside out.

 

Valvoline Synpower DOT 4 is fine, and readily available in local auto parts stores.

 

Valvoline no longers markets brake fluid as "Synpower", although you may find it still on shelves. The formula hasn't changed, but now it has a blue label, which just says
"Synthetic DOT3 & DOT4 Brake Fluid"

 

Valvoline no longers markets brake fluid as "Synpower", although you may find it still on shelves. The formula hasn't changes, but now it has a blue label, which just says
"Synthetic DOT3 & DOT4 Brake Fluid"

Correct. I just used this a couple of months ago, and could tell no difference between that and the Synpower of yesteryear. Good stuff, readily available, and less than $6/qt IIRC.

 

Isn't silicone more spongy anyway??? Is there a DOT5 that is not silicone?

 

Yes, DOT 5.1 is not silicone.

VW states that brake fluid must meet FMVSS 116 DOT 4 standards.

It appears that DOT 5, and 5.1 exceed the DOT 4 standards http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.asp?section=571.116

I believe the issue in using DOT 5, which is silicone based, is that it is not compatible with non-silicone fluid (it doesn't mix). So you would have to thorougly flush the old stuff out before using DOT 5.

Also, there is speculation that DOT 5 will swell the seals too much which may cause problems. However, if you look at the standards, DOT 5 has to pass the same standards for swelling as non-silicone brake fluid.

 

Ok, time to clear out a few misconceptions:

1. All brake fluid is synthetic. Really. Synthetic claims on the parts of manufacturers is marketing bull, pure and simple. That said, Valvoline and Castrol LMA are quality DoT-4 compliant fluids. I've used both with good results.

2. DoT-5 is a silicone based fluid that is NOT COMPATABLE with glycol based fluids. YOU CANNOT MIX THEM.
DoT-5 is inappropriate to use in any application unless:
a. You have completely flushed out all the brake fluid from the vehicle
b. The ABS system supports its usage.
I have experience converting a car to use DoT-5, a '73 VW. The advantage in that situation is that since the car sits for extended periods of time, and DoT-5 is not hygroscopic, that it will prevent internal corrosion of my brake parts from sitting.
I would not recommend converting an ABS-equipped vehicle to DoT-5 owing to the difficulty in removing all traces of fluid from the system, especially the ABS pump and BPMV. In my '73 VW, it was easy. I had all the brake components disassembled and rebuilt, and reassembled using DoT-5 as a lubricant. Does DoT-5 feel spongier? That's debatable. Seems fine in my '73 VW, which owing to the lack of power brakes on it, it feels differently than what I'm used to anyway.

3. DoT-5.1 is a glycol based fluid that has a higher dry and wet boiling point than the prior standard, DoT-4. The only advantage I see to using DoT-5.1 might be in a vehicle that is raced regularly on a track. Note that the dry boiling point of Castol LMA is greater around 504 degrees, IIRC, which comes awfully close to the 518 degrees required by the DoT-5.1 standard. You'll just end up paying more for DoT-5.1 for little advantage.

 

Well said. And I can't remember ever seeing DOT5.1 on a shelf in any parts store. Probably not worth the hassle to locate (and pay for) unless you have extreme braking needs.

99.9% of us should just use DOT4 every 2 years and we'll be just fine.

The Passat is the only car I've ever owned (in the last 40 years) that recommended brake flushing every 2 years as a regular maintenance item. Common sense would dictate that other vehicles that use DOT3 or DOT4 would suffer the same issues from brake fluid degradation over time as the Passat. For example, my 2005 Elantra and 2004 Diamante don't mention brake fluid changes on the maintenance schedule like the Passat does.

I drove an 86 Acura Legend for 17 years and about 150K miles. I might have changed the brake fluid twice during that time, and yet suffered no braking issues other than normal pad and rotor replacements. Master cylinder and all 4 calipers were original when I sold it. Same for a 79 Toyota Corolla I had for 22 years - might have changed the brake fluid twice. I would have probably done it more often if I had known better at the time. Even though I suffered no adverse effects from brake components, I did end up rebuilding the clutch master cylinder once and the slave twice on that 79 Corolla, so at least in my personal experience it's probably just as, or more important, to flush the clutch as the brakes. Just something to keep in mind if you have the 5 speed - always flush/bleed the clutch along with the brakes.

 

I'm going to be changing out 10 year old brake fluid out of a truck that's in my driveway. I can't wait to see what this crap is going to look like. It'll probably be brownish black.

 

I know what you mean. Sometimes it looks pretty decent in the reservoir, but when you siphon the reservoir, put it in a glass, take it out in the daylight, all of the sudden it doesn't look near so good. Also, common to see little particles (sediment like) floating around in the old fluid, which is probably residual wear from the internal brake components.

No matter how ugly it is, I bet it's not as ugly as 10 year old power steering fluid in a Passat

 

soo. dot 4 fluid for the brakes.
what about for the clutch? use the same? or use a specialty fluid?

 

Read the thread. The clutch feeds from the same reservoir for the brakes. Therefore, whatever you use for the brakes, you use for the clutch as well. Since DoT-4 is the requirement for the brakes, you use DoT-4 for the clutch.

 

Pentosin makes a Super DOT4 Plus fluid - I found it locally, and paid less than $9 US per litre.
Good fluids are made by Pentosin - I also used their CHF-11S power steering fluid, and fully sythentic HighPerformance 5W-40 in the W8.
Come ATF time I'll use their ATF-1 for sure.

 

The coloring in the ATE Blue can cause the clutch to squeek.

 

Avoid the blue unless you are racing. It dyes everything blue (reservoir, your hands, everything you get it on) and offers no advantage. It is just blue so racers can quickly identify the puddle on the floor.

The ATE Gold 4 is the same performance and price as the blue. I am very happy with it (and I have used many differnet fluids over the years in my race cars). I keep coming back to the ATE because it is cheap and it works.

 

I alternate ATE Super Blue and ATE TYP200 (Gold 4). That way I can see when the new fluid comes through when I flush it. Car is a 03 1.8T - manual tranny. Yes, the clutch squeaks a bit. As noted above - no performance benefit blue vs gold, just convenience.