There is very little chance that you did not bend any valves. You can pull the valve cover and see if any of the lifters are not in contact with the cam.

 

$2600 is a good price for a cylinder head rebuild and all associated items, including a new TB kit and waterpump.

Potentially the Water pump siezed and stripped the teeth off the belt?

Turning the engine over by hand will not, by itself, confirm if the valves are damaged. A mechanic with a boroscope will be better able to tell, but history with this engine supports a high probability of valve to piston contact for your TB failure mode.

 

Most of time the timing belt does not break, but just its teeth stripped. I believe your tensioner roller or water pump froze up and stripped the teeth. When timing belt fails on an interference engine like Passat, some of the valves will always hit the pistons and bend. That’s why most car manufactures are now using timing chain instead of belt.

From my past experience of dealing with VWoA, you are lucky that they actually called you back even though your complaint is somewhat legit. But don’t get too excited since you may not get anything from them. At best what they will do could be paying the labor for you, or split the total cost of the repair. But the end result will still be about the same that if you just have an indie to do it since dealer’s cost is a lot higher. Whatever your outcome will be, just remember to have whoever replacing everything, including tensioner, 2 rollers, water pump, thermostat, A/C and P/S belts in addition to your valve/head jobs.

 

Most of time the timing belt does not break, but just its teeth stripped. I believe your tensioner roller or water pump froze up and stripped the teeth.

Is the I4's water pump driven on the toothed side of the belt? Not so on the V6, a water pump failure will likely melt and shred the belt from friction on the pulley.

My friend also complained to VWoA about some very poor service he had received at a dealership. He didn't request any sort of repair compensation, but they sent him a certificate for $200 off any purchase at a VW parts counter, incuding Driver's Gear accessories. I thought that was pretty cool of them.

 

Toothed side + plastic impeller= fail. :thumbdown

 

Toothed side + plastic impeller= fail. :thumbdown

A picture is worth a thousand words.:thumbup:

But I have to defend the plastic impeller a bit. My wife’s BMW 528i uses plastic impeller on its water pump too. It failed on its metal bearing but the plastic impeller was perfectly fine. Since it is driven by the serpentine belt not the timing belt, there is no major damage to anything else. In fact I believe the broken plastic impeller should not break the belt, only the frozen bearing do. My wife even drove the bimmer back home with the broken belt and complained that why the steering suddenly became so heavy???:crazy:

I guess not all German plastics are created equal…

 

I was once told the rationale for the plastic impeller was specifically so it could break away and not jam the shaft (and timing belt). Maybe?

 

I think plastic is better for resisting cavitation damage, it's the only explanation I can see. Cavitation occuring on wide open throttle situations...but we never do that ...right ??

If they were concerned about the pump siezing, why?
From what? The spinning on the shaft problem could have been addressed by putting a flat on the metal shaft, the plastic part slides over (with force)
and it's done.

 

When I got the replacement water pump with plastic impeller from BMW dealer, I questioned the longevity of the plastic impeller. But the parts guy told me that the new one is an improved version and the impeller now is made of "special plastic" which will last a lot longer.

Of course the "plastic" impeller is lighter and not subject to rusting. It may gain 1/2 hp than metal impeller.

 

VW manual recommends to replace the timing belt at 105K miles, so, if it fails much earlier than that then, why don't they replace it at no charge. Otherwise they should reduce the recommended interval of 105K. has anyone tried negotiating with VW about it?

 

I know where you are coming from, but this kind of thinking is one of the reasons why things get more and more expensive .... it's out of warranty.
I mean, they never recommend to change the manual tranny fluid, but I would not expect them to fix it if it breaks at 150k miles. Things do break.
But I agree, it would not hurt to ask - why not, right?!?

 

Sorry to hear about your TB failure at 75k...but luckily since the TB didn't really break, chances are the valves/pistons would still be good.

Incidentally, I got my ATW 2000 B5 wagon (now at 80,025mi) from the shop for the TB change yesterday. I had it done from an indie (does every make) across work, 2 blocks from home. Drove it there right after it hit 80k. The TB, tensioner, water pump, drive belts, gaskets..including a new alternator (bearings on the old one was going and moaning noisy for some years..) with labor went for $925.

I kept the old parts..the TB somehow seemingly looks the best in condition compared to the other two drive belts. The worst looking was the small diameter water pump(?) belt..cracks all over.

The engine now purrs..or should I say pretty quiet and tight (nearly silent like when I got the car new). The wonders a new TB regimen does to the 1.8T...

 

All 4 cylinders cycle with no noise or hindrance or anything. I'm trying not get excited but is there even physically any possible chance the piston did not hit a valve?

If you are turning the crank shaft and there's no timing belt, you are not moving the valve train. Since the pistons already bent the valves out of their way, you hear nothing. Just a possible explanation.

What happens when you turn the cam sprocket?

 

I haven't moved the valve train and I'm tearing into the VCG soon to do some further inspection, but if a valve hit a piston there would have to be some sort of mark on the piston right? All 4 pistons are clean. No marks, no scratches, no blemishes at all. I'm graduating today so life's been a little hectic, but with summer starting I'll know shortly the total damage. If I somehow aligned the planets and didn't have a piston to valve collision I'll be sure to let everyone know.

 

I hope everything works out for you, I really do. Did you remove the cylinder head and inspect the entire piston crown..?? If you are only looking down the sprak plug tunnel, then you are probably not seeing the area where the damage would be inflicted.

But you are correct, no marks on the piston would most likelt indicate no valve collision.

Dave.

 

The valves will make contact at the outer edge of the piston. Without a boroscope, you would not be able to see it.

 

Anyone know where one can rent a boroscope?

 

There are bore scopes on eBay for not a helluva lot of money. I wonder if one could be used to look inside the oil pan to see what the pickup screen looks like. :hmmm:

 

Why rent a borescope. You have bent valves. The head has to come off no matter what. Yank the head.
Buy a timing belt Kit
Buy a head gasket kit
Buy some valves and guides

Take the head to a machine shop
Pay $150-$250 to have all the guides, bent valves and seals replaced as well as having the head checked, decked,cleaned and valves honed.

Then reassemble

The only real question is how many valves will you need and how bad the dings are on the pistons.

 

agreed

 

I wouldn't suggest any VW dealership for doing 'any' work on a car out of warranty. You see what you get by reading all of the stories. VWOA is a joke. If they aren't covering anyone that is less than 1k miles out of warranty, they aren't going to give anyone assistance.

 

Okay Okay... I'll stop playing around with the idea that I may be the one and only lucky one to avoid a disaster. I'm going to pull my cylinder head. I think I was in denial about my valves being jacked but I can see through the cynical wisdom that is PassatWorld. Thanks vets for all the advice.

 

Take the valve cover off and look at the cams/lifters. If the lifters are not touching the cams, then you have bent valves. A feeler gauge can be made from a soda can. Try to push the sliver of the can between the cam and lifter, if if goes, consider the valve bent, it can look like this:

 

Can you tell me who you contacted at VWoA. I have tried to contact VW about the horrendous service at the dealership (can't even put in a headlamp properly among other things) but don't get any response. Could you share your contact info.

 

Can you tell me who you contacted at VWoA. I have tried to contact VW about the horrendous service at the dealership (can't even put in a headlamp properly among other things) but don't get any response. Could you share your contact info.

You can call VWGoA Customer CARE at 1-800-822-8987 and insist to talk to a supervisor if you think your matter is serious. But from my past experience dealing with them since 80’s I really don’t think they will do anything for you on poor dealer service since they are too many. Poor dealer service, among other things, causes many people stayed away from buying a new VW in US.

The best way to maintain and repair your VW is to DIY. Or find a reputable VW indie shop if you are lucky. Go to VW dealer is not only expensive but also problematic. I can name many mistakes the tech made each time I go to my VW dealer, which is rated the best one in our area, for warranty work.

 

Even, you have bumped a thread that is more than a year old. you might not get a salient response...

 

Is the water pump driven by the timing belt or the serpentine? (On a 1998, 1.8T)

 

On a 98 AEB engine, the water pump is external and driven by a separate belt.

 

Timing belt. It's inside the timing cover.

Stupid design, I wish they would've designed it so it was on a non-vital belt. The more shit you pack on to the timing belt, the more frequently catastrophic failure may occur.

 

Timing belt. It's inside the timing cover.

Stupid design, I wish they would've designed it so it was on a non-vital belt. The more shit you pack on to the timing belt, the more frequently catastrophic failure may occur.

Packing more components such as water pump driven by the timing belt to save cost is not an issue if all components are very reliable. My Honda CR-V also designed to have water pump driven by the timing belt but it never has been an issue as long as you replace the timing belt and water pump at recommended interval.

Since timing belt system could cause unpredicted catastrophic failure before the recommended replacement interval, almost every car manufactures have switched to timing chain. On I4 engine series in US VW finally switched to timing chain in 2009 MY when they introduced 2.0T TSI replacing timing-belt equipped 2.0T FSI. It is way too late comparing to Japanese counterparts such as Honda, Toyota, and Nissan’s where they have been using timing chain since at least ‘05. Not to mention that the timing belt system from Honda, Toyota, and Nissan’s is a lot more reliable than VW and Audi’s. I personally have not heard any premature failures on timing belt from these brands.

Other German car manufactures such as BMW and Mercedes have always been using timing chain. Only VW/Audi cheapened out and used timing belt for a long time.

 

Damn, you showed my ass.

Lol why would they make a revision that is worse? Oh right, I forgot this is Volkswagen.
I thought all 1.8Ts were the same in that respect.

 

There is no luck involved on mechanical things. You Passat stripped the teeth on timing belt, you got bent valves. Hope you realize now that having the timing chain is much better than having the timing belt.
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OP... not trying to hijack.


@Verdana
Is it possible to convert a 1.8 belt driven to chain?

 

Blauparts Timing belt kit

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