I noticed on my cap there is a bit of sludge and under the valve cover. Is it okay to use an engine flush treatment on these 1.8T's?
DrewA
I have run nothing but synthetic since new. But... reading about "sludge failure" on a couple of cars made me nervous. Granted I believe these were dino based oil users that had the issues. I have flushed my engine at 40K and again at 80k. I use Mobile1 0-40 (5-30 previously) and Mahn filters. I figure... its doesn’t hurt to "flush" and if it is a waste of my money it makes me feel more secure. I happen to go to local jiffy lube for the labor and they know me, e.g. don’t do ANYTHING other than the oil, and they have been nice enough to buy me a new belly pan already :shock:
Regardless, I agree with the previous posts, change at 5k and run good syn oil. Since flushing doesn’t hurt and it makes you feel better, do it.
Regardless, I agree with the previous posts, change at 5k and run good syn oil. Since flushing doesn’t hurt and it makes you feel better, do it.
could somebody explain exactly what the "flush" procedure is. the only way i can see it having a meaningful effect is forcing oil through the motor while the oil pan is off the motor.
103850 miles...the first 25000 on normal oil, almost 80000 on mobil 1 synthetic, chipped since the 80000 mile mark, and the car still runs hard. knock on wood
103850 miles...the first 25000 on normal oil, almost 80000 on mobil 1 synthetic, chipped since the 80000 mile mark, and the car still runs hard. knock on wood
Yes, I fully agree with you to a point. However, there are benefits to a product such as Auto-Rx that cannot be ignored. I used it on my 265K (original engine and clutch) '79 Scirocco with amazing results. Even though I followed a fairly religious 3K mile oil change interval its entire life (with highest quality dino oil), after 500+ miles of Auto-Rx I got a sudden jump in power, and drop in oil consumption. Only conclusion I can come to is freed up stuck rings. Many on the "Bobistheoilguy" website believe that Auto-Rx is a good product, and these guys aren't going to be impressed by "snake oil"...Sharky said:
Well, the Auto-Rx website begins with a whopper of a lie, so I wouldn't buy what they are selling:
The sludge you saw is probably an emulsion of oil and water and is not a cause for concern.
95%? I'm calling B.S. on that one. Symptoms and causes are two entirely different things. If you don't change the oil in your engine, it will fail due to improper lubrication and sludge will be the evidence of the abuse, not the cause of the failure.
The sludge you saw is probably an emulsion of oil and water and is not a cause for concern.
5-minute flushes have a strong risk factor built-in. Since it is a strong solvent there is a chance that it can break off a chunk of sludge (rather than dissolving it - yes, engines have been ruined by quick solvents) and clog your oil passages. Also, the limit of 5 minutes in a running engine should be a tipoff that the flush is not friendly to engine seals.
Auto-Rx, on the other had, takes 1,500 miles to slowly dissolve the sludge, layer-by-layer. ARX improves the condition of the seals by cleaning out sludge that has built-up behind the seal and allows it reform properly after the application is done.
Go to www.rms13.com to see a worse-case sludged eninge and how Auto-Rx affected it.
There is also a coupon code floating around here: ARXPW
Auto-Rx, on the other had, takes 1,500 miles to slowly dissolve the sludge, layer-by-layer. ARX improves the condition of the seals by cleaning out sludge that has built-up behind the seal and allows it reform properly after the application is done.
Go to www.rms13.com to see a worse-case sludged eninge and how Auto-Rx affected it.
There is also a coupon code floating around here: ARXPW
My biggest concerns with solvent (usually kerosene) based oil flushes are their adverse effects on oil and on seals. If you do use a fast flush product, make sure you run very short OCIs on your next two oil changes, because any solvent left in the engine will attack your oil. Alternatively, fill just the crankcase (via the dipstick tube, not the oil filler hole) with 2 qts. of solvent to clean the oil pump pickup screen, let it sit overnight, drain it, and rinse with cheap oil before refilling the crankcase with synthetic oil and starting the engine. Auto-RX sounds like a much safer way to go.
My own plan is Mobil 1 0W-40 every 3K to 3.5K miles (5 to 6K km) because of city driving (a longer OCI would indeed be fine for mostly highway driving), coupled with periodic inspection of the PCV system. At every oil change, I look for evidence of sludge in the emerging oil, and I look through the oil filler hole periodically with a strong flashlight. So far, all I have ever seen is light varnish above the valve cover gasket and clean aluminum below it. When Cook VW replaced my cam seals and CCA, they had the valve cover off and a perfect opportunity to try to sell me on some sort of engine flush. They didn't do so, because they found no significant sludge buildup. I also occasionally cut open an old oil filter and check the paper element for sludge (none yet).
When I have time and can figure out where to put it (my in-dash CD player occupies the second DIN bay), I do intend to add an oil pressure gauge, which should give forewarning of gradual blockage of the oil pump inlet screen. Others have reported some success in manually cleaning the screen with a bristled baby bottle brush (love that alliteration, if nothing else).
My own plan is Mobil 1 0W-40 every 3K to 3.5K miles (5 to 6K km) because of city driving (a longer OCI would indeed be fine for mostly highway driving), coupled with periodic inspection of the PCV system. At every oil change, I look for evidence of sludge in the emerging oil, and I look through the oil filler hole periodically with a strong flashlight. So far, all I have ever seen is light varnish above the valve cover gasket and clean aluminum below it. When Cook VW replaced my cam seals and CCA, they had the valve cover off and a perfect opportunity to try to sell me on some sort of engine flush. They didn't do so, because they found no significant sludge buildup. I also occasionally cut open an old oil filter and check the paper element for sludge (none yet).
When I have time and can figure out where to put it (my in-dash CD player occupies the second DIN bay), I do intend to add an oil pressure gauge, which should give forewarning of gradual blockage of the oil pump inlet screen. Others have reported some success in manually cleaning the screen with a bristled baby bottle brush (love that alliteration, if nothing else).
I too would avoid those quickie products on the turbo cars, as when they are in the engine and running for the 5 minute interval, the lubricant to the turbo bearings is very thinned, and can cause damage, even if the turbo is just "idleing".
Also, the effects to seals are worrisome to me as well. Kerosene is not a very seal friendly product, at least not in passenger cars. If you do try it, do what John suggests and just soak the pick-up filter, which is likely going to be the first place you'll have issues if there is sludge.
A good regimen of oil changes is probably the best way to go here, turbo charged cars with small sumps are just not a great combination, luckily we have synthetics that can bear the brunt of that abuse pretty well, but even then they need regular changes.
Mark
Also, the effects to seals are worrisome to me as well. Kerosene is not a very seal friendly product, at least not in passenger cars. If you do try it, do what John suggests and just soak the pick-up filter, which is likely going to be the first place you'll have issues if there is sludge.
A good regimen of oil changes is probably the best way to go here, turbo charged cars with small sumps are just not a great combination, luckily we have synthetics that can bear the brunt of that abuse pretty well, but even then they need regular changes.
Mark
Interesting thread, I have two 1.8T passats at 90 and 115k miles.
A nearby garage where I buy tires is recommending "BG" products. One of their products is a mist/spray that (in our case) enters the air/fuel mixture area via the throttle-body and does so for about 25 minutes while the car is running. Then they take the car out for a drive at high-rpm to burn off what is left in the way of released residues and leftover chemicals. Then the oil and oil filter is changed and off you go.
Any opinions from people who actually know this product? Is this considered a "5-minute flush" product that is criticised here?
Any opinions/info from people who have experience with other BG conditioning products?
A nearby garage where I buy tires is recommending "BG" products. One of their products is a mist/spray that (in our case) enters the air/fuel mixture area via the throttle-body and does so for about 25 minutes while the car is running. Then they take the car out for a drive at high-rpm to burn off what is left in the way of released residues and leftover chemicals. Then the oil and oil filter is changed and off you go.
Any opinions from people who actually know this product? Is this considered a "5-minute flush" product that is criticised here?
Any opinions/info from people who have experience with other BG conditioning products?
maxxx - are you thinking of BG44K? I know BG also make a BG44K-based 3 or 4-part kit designed for mechanics to use on customer cars.
This is primarily a throttle body/intake/injector cleaner. I've poured a can into the gas tank before - seemed to run smoother at idle; some of the knowledgeable folk here swear by it for keeping the fuel system clean. $16/can at http://www.wyattarp-seguin.fivestardealers.com/index.cgi?dc=1 Elsewhere, about $25-35/can.
Sorry for the sidetrack
This is primarily a throttle body/intake/injector cleaner. I've poured a can into the gas tank before - seemed to run smoother at idle; some of the knowledgeable folk here swear by it for keeping the fuel system clean. $16/can at http://www.wyattarp-seguin.fivestardealers.com/index.cgi?dc=1 Elsewhere, about $25-35/can.
Sorry for the sidetrack
Might it mean that the PCV system is shot? (non rhetorical question)Sharky said:
I just looked at the T-junction housing part (whatever it's called, the thing under the intake manifold) of the PCV system on my '99 AEB and it was coated in black oily crud. I guess that means it's time to go to the info forum & the dealer (for parts)...
A black oil crud coating is NOT a good omen. You are on the right track in having the PCV valve and hoses thoroughly inspected and cleaned.ralfp said:
A VW flush? Ah let me go ahead and say this. Speaking on behalf of a several threads concerning engine flush, Auto-RX is the best and only option out there really. With short, regular OCIs with a quality filter and oil (determine for yourself a quality oil and filter from the countless threads about them) the engine flushes become uncessary. However, ya go long on an OCI, bought the car used, dog died, or simply for POM, use AutoRX!
I bet the VW one is just a way to make more money. Kinda like an underbody coating..
I bet the VW one is just a way to make more money. Kinda like an underbody coating..
Sharky? Do you have any info on the VW service Flush? I remember hearing a one of the service reps saying to a customer that he did it to his own car, and a bunch of gunk came out. I only ask because I have been lax on my last 2 service intervals. Mainly because of my schedule, last service was almost 2k over (7k instead of 5k). And I can't get in to see Bel until the 26th of this month, so It will be close to 1k on this one. Anyone done this at the dealer? Come on guys come forward. 
Michael
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