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Saip egr valve help

5.6K views 14 replies 5 participants last post by  amadeolr  
#1 ·
so ive had 2 codes for my saip for the longest time now.
finally took it to a vw mechanic to get a quick peek.
he told me the saip has gotten water inside of it.

so i bought a new (used) saip just in case.

now ive read that the EGR valve is to blame for this.
because it gets stuck open and lets water inside.

my question is .. wich egr valve do i need to replace?
i see one under the coolant tank and one under the air intake by the maf.

before i go and buy an egr valve and waste money and labor on the wrong part.

anyone?
thanks in advance! this is truly awful especially now that its raining like crazy
 
#2 ·
It's called the combi valve and located at the back of the cylinder head. You can just follow the pipe back that runs beside the valve cover and above the exhaust if it's the 1.8T
Not cheap and not easy to get at.
 
#3 ·
so ive had 2 codes for my saip for the longest time now.
finally took it to a vw mechanic to get a quick peek.
he told me the saip has gotten water inside of it.
...this is truly awful especially now that its raining like crazy
The water in the secondary air pump is less likely caused by the rain rather it is more likely from the bad combi (kombi) valve letting exhaust backflow down to the pump. The warm exhaust cools in the piping on the way down and condensation forms and gets in the pump.

The plastic secondary air pump connecting pipes, one from air filter housing to pump intake and one from pump exhaust to combi valves, can break loose at pump side and let water get into the pump. But if you have belly pan installed the rain water should not get into the air pump easily even with the broken connecting pipes.

On 2.8L V6 we have two combi valves located at the rear end of each head. The cost-effective way to fix your SAIP system is to check cracking rubber hoses to the combi valves and broken plastic connecting pipes to the secondary air pump first. If the problem can't get resolved then replace the combi valves. If the problem still persists, then replace the secondary air pump. You can always clean and dry your air pump and see if it still works.

As you may have already known, these parts for SAIP system on Passat are not cheap. Unfortunately you need TWO different combi valves on V6 which will run you $180 - $190 a piece. Secondary air pump will be around $350 - $550 depending on model year. Heck even that weak plastic intake air pump connecting pipe costs you $86.83!!!

There are many cars designed without using such unreliable SAIP system to achieve the same emission standard. Unfortunately our Passat is not one of them.
 
#4 ·
thank you.
i got my saip used for $100 so thankfully i didnt have to pay $300+
the hoses to the saip seem solid and no cracks, the hoses to the combi valves look ok but its hard to see them good because its not on surface.

i will double check the hoses to the combi valves.
im guessing the one on the left by the air intake is the one that goes to the saip?

is there any DIYs for this for the v6?
im going to start this today before the rain returns.
 
#6 ·
i got my saip used for $100 so thankfully i didnt have to pay $300+
...
i will double check the hoses to the combi valves.
im guessing the one on the left by the air intake is the one that goes to the saip?
Since it is a very common problem on Passat’s SAIP system, getting a used secondary air pump may not be a good idea unless you can make sure there is no moisture or water being accumulated inside of the pump. But I’d get a used one too since the new one is so expensive.

Once you take the belly pan down and located the secondary air pump, you should be able to check the condition of these two plastic connecting pipes. I suspect the VW dealer damaged the connector of my plastic intake connecting pipe by just pulling the pipe which is attached to the front side of the air filter housing with force when they were replacing the air filter.

The air blown by the pump goes to both combi valves located the rear end of the cylinder heads. These air connecting pipes are larger comparing to vacuum hoses about 1” diameter. There are smaller vacuum hoses controlling the combi valves which you need to give these a check too.
 
#5 ·
I have not had success with the one time I tried to bring a seized combi-valve back to life, but that's not to say it isn't worth a try. Those things are expensive and the cost of trying to revive them isn't too bad.

I got this procedure from reading through a bunch of general internet Google searches. If you search around, you might run across the same information or better.

Pull the combi-valve (or valves if you have a V6) and fill them with a solvent capable of breaking down carbon deposits (Seafoam or brake cleaning spray). Let the solvent sit in there and dissolve any carbon buildup. You may want to let it sit overnight. Use a vacuum pump to try to get the valve to move. If you're lucky, you can bring it back to working condition.

In the first post of this link is a video of the bad valve I was working on. I ended up breaking it open to see what goes on inside. http://www.passatworld.com/forums/42-club-b5/319096-combivalve-innards.html

Also, make sure your N112 valve is operating properly. If it is sticking open it will be applying vacuum to your two combi-valves all the time instead of just when the pump is running. The N112 valve and Combi-valve(s) should only be open when the SAIP pump is running.
 
#9 ·
What are the exact code numbers?

Is the SAIPump running (50~100 seconds) on cold-start? You should be able to hear it if you listen to it. The pump is located low on the passenger side just behind the front bumper. If you pull the belly pan and look up from underneath, you should be able to see it. The SAIP relay and SAIP fuse are located in the same plastic box your ECU lives in. If the relay or fuse is bad, the pump won't get powered up and you'll get a code for both banks of the SAIS.

Test the N112 to see if it's opening during the SAIS cycle and closing when the cycle ends. When the N112 opens, it should pass vacuum on to the two combi-valves. When it closes, it should stop supplying vacuum to the combi-valves.
 
#10 ·
i hear the saip when i cold start the car.
it runs for about a minute and turns off by itself by the time the car is warmed up and ready to go.

i had a problem once when i jump started the car and ground the jumper cable to the front of my car. this caused the saip to turn on and run for a few minutes while the car was off.
maybe doing this caused some sort of short and killed the pump.
but the funny thing is ,i still hear it when i turn the car on.
sounds like a vacuum cleaner.
not extremely loud, but not silent either.

should i try to take my old saip off and put the new one on and see if it clears the CEL?

or is it too risky to get water in the new one by doing so?

oh and the code #'s my obd2 scanner pulled are
p1411
p1423

wich are bank 1 and 2 sec.air.inj.sys. flow too low
 
#11 ·
i hear the saip when i cold start the car.
it runs for about a minute and turns off by itself by the time the car is warmed up and ready to go.

i had a problem once when i jump started the car and ground the jumper cable to the front of my car. this caused the saip to turn on and run for a few minutes while the car was off.
maybe doing this caused some sort of short and killed the pump.
but the funny thing is ,i still hear it when i turn the car on.
sounds like a vacuum cleaner.
not extremely loud, but not silent either.

should i try to take my old saip off and put the new one on and see if it clears the CEL?

or is it too risky to get water in the new one by doing so?

oh and the code #'s my obd2 scanner pulled are
p1411
p1423

wich are bank 1 and 2 sec.air.inj.sys. flow too low
If I were you I’ll follow Steve’s link and his procedure to test the N112 and combi valves by blowing the air into the connecting pipe from the secondary air pump side. You need to find out if these valves are still functional. From your codes they seem to indicate either the air pump is shot or BOTH combi valves are stuck partially closed. No matter, you still need to verify if the combi valves are functional.
 
#12 ·
Things that will get you codes for BOTH banks...

two bad combi-valves
bad N112 valve (or associated vacuum lines)
no voltage to the N112 during the SAIS cycle
bad SAIPump
breaks or blockage in the large hoses to/from the SAIPump
blown SAIP fuse
bad SAIP relay
(Does the SAIP relay also send power to the N112?)
 
#13 ·
BEE5, do you have a 1.8 or v6?

I have a P0492 - Secondary Air Injection System code on my 2002 v6. I checked the and fuse and it was ok. I swapped out the relay with a used relay I got on ebay for $5. I can't hear the SAIP running at start up. I am not sure if I just cant hear it or if it is not running? I drilled a hole in the plastic housing of the old relay and manually closed the relay when the car was not running. The SAIP fired up and sounded fine so I don't think the problem is the SAIP. I'll check the hoses and pipes for cracks next.
 
#14 ·
I can't hear the SAIP running at start up. I am not sure if I just cant hear it or if it is not running?
You might not be able to hear it from the drivers seat. If you stand at the front passenger corner of the car, you should be able to hear it over the engine noise.
It only runs for about a minute so if you can stand up front while someone else cold-starts it, you've got a better chance of hearing it.
The SAIP only cycles on at a cold start. Other times you start the car, it may not cycle on.

P0492 Secondary Air Injection System Insufficient Flow Bank 2

Since you're only getting that one code and not a code for Bank 1, your pump is probably running.
Check the combi valve for bank 2
Any other trouble codes? Any Bank 2 O2 sensor codes?