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No start condition on 2001 Passat 2.8

6.8K views 16 replies 6 participants last post by  Tomvw  
#1 ·
Hello. Merry Christmas.

My 2001 Passat 2.8 all of a sudden won't start (turns over and seems to sometimes try to fire occasionally). I hooked up my laptop using my VCDS by Ross-tech and printed the codes out. I knew about the O2 sensor (and I have one that I will install shortly).

I have checked my fuel pump relay (372) and it seems to test out fine.

At the relay panel where the fuel pump relay plugs in, there is 12 volts at terminal 30 and 86. With the ignition turned on there is only 3 volts at 87A. Not sure if that's right or not.

All of my electronics seem to work fine so I doubt it is a CCM (although there were a couple intermittent codes for the seat control, door modules, S contact at Ignition).

I attached the codes.

Additionally I pulled off the access plate over the gas tank to see if I could hear the fuel pump at all (you don't have to take out the back seat like I read on many, many threads - It's in the trunk). I heard nothing when the ignition was turned to run. There are only two wires (a blue and a black) that go to the pump (thin wires at that). All of the threads I found say there were 4 wires. In run they only show a bit more than 3 volts.

After doing MORE research yet, I decided to try and jump pin 30 to pin 87 on the relay 372 socket. The pump ran. So I suspect the pump is good. I tried starting it like this and it started. I shut it off and put the relay back in and it started again! So what does this mean? It's almost like jumping the relay socket "kick started" something. I don't want this to occur again, because it will and of course at the worst possible time. So again, what does all this mean? Where is / was the issue? Again, the power to the fuel pump does NOT come from the plug on top of it like I have read. There are only two wires, a blue and black wire for the sending unit. Where do the wires that power the fuel pump enter the tank?

Codes:

Wednesday,25,December,2013,19:28:40:43235
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
VCDS Version: Release 12.12.0 (x64)
Data version: 20130910


VIN: WVWEH23B71E005403 License Plate:
Mileage: 204750km-127225mi Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 3B - VW Passat B5 (1997 > 2005)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 35 36 37 46 47 55 56 57 58 75 76 77


Mileage: 204750km/127225miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 078-907-551-ATQ.lbl
Part No: 3B0 907 551 BA
Component: 2.8L V6/5V G 0003
Coding: 07251
Shop #: WSC 05311
VCID: 63CBAB76F1FD5B06E91-5178

7 Faults Found:
17526 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B1 S2
P1118 - 35-00 - Open Circuit
17522 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B1 S2
P1114 - 35-10 - Internal Resistance too High - Intermittent
17831 - Secondary Air Injection System; Bank 1
P1423 - 35-10 - Insufficient Flow - Intermittent
16524 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S2
P0140 - 35-10 - No Activity - Intermittent
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 35-10 - - Intermittent
16687 - Cylinder 3
P0303 - 35-10 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
16690 - Cylinder 6
P0306 - 35-10 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
Readiness: 0010 0001

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01V-927-156.lbl
Part No: 8D0 927 156 AT
Component: AG5 01V 2.8l5V USA 3132
Coding: 00102
Shop #: WSC 05311
VCID: 7F0307067D559FE6ED9-515A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8E0-614-111-EDS.lbl
Part No: 8E0 614 111 A
Component: ABS/EDS 5.3 QUATTRO D10
Shop #: BB 24334
VCID: 1C39D08A8C0324FE68B-513C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3Bx-907-044.lbl
Part No: 3B1 907 044 D
Component: CLIMATRONIC D2.2
Coding: 05000
Shop #: WSC 05311
VCID: 2245EE72AE67120EA27-515A

1 Fault Found:
01206 - Signal for Duration of Ignition Off Time
35-10 - - - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
Part No: 6Q0 909 605 B
Component: 03 AIRBAG VW5 0004
Coding: 12339
Shop #: WSC 05311
VCID: 366D222212EF9EAE7EF-4B18

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1J0-907-487.lbl
Part No: 1J0 907 487
Component: Lenkradelektronik X34
Coding: 00008
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: EEDD4A42AA3F666EF6F-520C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3B0-920-xx2-17.lbl
Part No: 3B0 920 820 C
Component: B5-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V26
Coding: 07365
Shop #: WSC 05311
VCID: 1D3FDD8E97192DF69F5-5178

2 Faults Found:
00779 - Outside Air Temp Sensor (G17)
30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
00779 - Outside Air Temp Sensor (G17)
29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00005
Shop #: WSC 05314
VCID: F0E1543AB00B709EE43-515A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: 3B1-959-760.lbl
Part No: 3B1 959 760 A
Component: Sitzverstellung FS 0003
VCID: 2B5B0356D9ADD346111-515A

5 Faults Found:
01008 - Note; Emergency OFF Switch is Active!
35-00 - -
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
06-10 - Signal too High - Intermittent
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent
01329 - Convenience System Data Bus in Emergency Mode
35-10 - - - Intermittent
01330 - Central Control Module for Central Convenience (J393)
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1J0-959-799.lbl
Part No: 1J0 959 799 AJ
Component: 6Y Zentral-SG Komf. 0001
Coding: 04098
Shop #: WSC 05311
VCID: 860D12E2A28F4E2E2EF-4B18

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1J0959801H
Component: 6Y Tõrsteuerger. FS0002r

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1J0959802J
Component: 6Y Tõrsteuerger. BF0002B

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1J4959811D
Component: 6Y Tõrsteuerger. HL0002r

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1J4959812D
Component: 6Y Tõrsteuerger. HR0002r

8 Faults Found:
00849 - S-contact at Ignition/Starter Switch (D)
25-10 - Unknown Switch Condition - Intermittent
00953 - Interior Light Time limit
25-10 - Unknown Switch Condition - Intermittent
01329 - Convenience System Data Bus in Emergency Mode
35-10 - - - Intermittent
01333 - Door Control Module; Rear Left (J388)
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01331 - Door Control Module; Driver Side (J386)
52-10 - Supply Voltage Too High - Intermittent
01332 - Door Control Module; Passenger Side (J387)
52-10 - Supply Voltage Too High - Intermittent
01333 - Door Control Module; Rear Left (J388)
52-10 - Supply Voltage Too High - Intermittent
01334 - Door Control Module; Rear Right (J389)
52-10 - Supply Voltage Too High - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 1J0-035-18x-56.lbl
Part No: 1J0 035 180 B
Component: Radio DE2 0004
Coding: 04043
Shop #: WSC 92724
VCID: 1E3DDA829A1F36EE86F-51EE

1 Fault Found:
00856 - Radio Antenna
44-00 - Short Circuit

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------



Thanks!
 
#2 ·
Please take a picture of that fuel tank connector. Every one I've seen has four wires, the outer ones larger for the pump, and the two inner ones smaller for the sender. Is this is a two-wheel drive Passat, or a 4-Motion? Sure is a lot of CCM fault codes, don't know if there is a correlation though.

Why not leave that knee bolster off, and remove the plastic cover from the fuel pump relay. Then when you turn the ignition ON, the click of the relay should be obvious. If leave that access cover over the fuel tank off, and lower the rear-passenger side seat, the sound of the pump should also be easier to hear. If you try to start, and the relay does not click, use your finger to manually push the contacts closed. The pump should run at any time you try this.
 
#3 ·
Hello. I will take a picture tomorrow. Yes, I hear you...every threat I found on line (not just here) spoke of 4 wires. It is a 4-motion. The back seat doesn't fold in that year (the only thing we don't like about the car). I should also add though that the relay DID click even when it wouldn't go. How do you take the relay over off? That would be a good temp situation, but I want to resolve the issue. Thanks.
 
#5 ·
I have a sneaking suspicion your fuel pump is on the fritz.
Same thing happened to me. Car ran great. Went inside a sandwich shop, came back out, no start.
The culprit, dead fuel pump. Yeah just like that :banghead:
 
#7 ·
I suppose it could happen, though unlikely. The relays are spring-loaded, and remove power from the pump whenever the ignition is switched off.

Removing and then replacing the relay may have corrected a defective connection between the blade connectors and receptacles in the relay panel. Also, if the relay contacts are burned, just handling the relay may have temporarily improved the connection, but I wouldn't get too focused on the fuel pump relay as the problem.
 
#8 ·
There is a chance the relay could be going bad. I'm not saying its impossible but its probably not likely.
Relays after long periods of time get pitted. This is from the electric current flowing through the contact points, over time the contact points opening and closing will cause the pitting from the electrical current making an ever so slight of a spark as the points open and close.
In general, relays are very reliable.
 
#9 · (Edited)
From the info you have given, I am 90% sure the FP relay is the problem.


These tests are best if done while the FP is not working.
During these tests, everything must be connected except where otherwise directed.

Relay test 1:
Unplug fuses #29 and #34. With engine cranking measure the voltage between ground and fuse #28, if the voltage is above 0.5V, and more than 1V below the voltage at fuse #32, it is about 90% sure the relay is faulty, and about 9% sure there is a fault in the relay socket, fuse socket, or the wiring between them.


Relay test 2:
Unplug fuses #29 and #34. With the engine cranking measure the voltages at the FP Relay. Connect the positive probe to
term #30 and the negative probe to term #87a, if the voltage is more than 1/2 a volt, and more than 1V below the voltage
at fuse #32 to ground, you can be 100% sure that the relay or a connection in its socket is faulty.

Note: If the relay is not activated during either of these tests, you won't get the specified readings and the test will be void.
If the relay didn't activate, that is probably the problem and you would need to check that circuit.

Note 2: If your relay has pins 30, 85, 86, 87, and 87a, use 87 where I have specified 87a.
The wiring diagram that I was using has different terminal designations.
 
#10 ·
Hello Tom. Thanks. I have a couple questions before I start.

Relay test 1:
Unplug fuses #29 and #34. With engine cranking measure the voltage between ground and fuse #28 (with fuse 28 still in the car?) , if the voltage is above 0.5V, and more than 1V below the voltage at fuse #32 (Again fuse 32 is also still in the car?) , it is about 90% sure the relay is faulty, and about 9% (9% ?....as a slight chance?) sure there is a fault in the relay socket, fuse socket, or the wiring between them.


Relay test 2:
Unplug fuses #29 and #34. With the engine cranking measure the voltages at the FP Relay. Connect the positive probe to term #30 and the negative probe to term #87a, if the voltage is more than 1/2 a volt, and more than 1V below the voltage at fuse #32 to ground, you can be 100% sure that the relay or a connection in its socket is faulty. (Relay out and measuring the voltage at its socket?)

Note: If the relay is not activated during either of these tests, you won't get the specified readings and the test will be void.
If the relay didn't activate, that is probably the problem and you would need to check that circuit.



Thanks.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Regarding questions #1 yes, #2 yes, and #5 no, see the third line in my post.
During these tests, everything must be connected except where otherwise directed.
Questions #3 and #4: (90% + 9% = 99%), not sure what you are asking.

Note: If your relay has pins 30, 85, 86, 87, and 87a, use 87 where I have specified 87a.
The wiring diagram that I was using has different terminal designations.
 
#11 ·
Use your VAG-COM output tests to run the fuel pump as long as you like, without cranking the engine. As I mentioned before, the plastic case of the relay just snaps off, allowing you to visually see the contacts move. This also allows you to buff them with #1000 Aluminum oxide paper or crocus cloth in the event that they are dirty, burned, or pitted. If the contacts close, but the pump doesn't run, put your voltmeter probe on one, then the other contact, with the other DVM lead grounded. There should be 12V on each when the contacts are closed, and on only one contact when open.
 
#13 ·
...My prefered way to home in on the pump is to remove the electrical connector, then use a spare 12V battery to power the pump directly. Positive to Green or Green/yellow, negative to brown. This bypasses the entire circuit in the car, so if the pump runs (and the engine starts) look at that circuit. If the pump doesn't run, change the pump. I've changed the pump on my A4, which is fairly easy if the tank isn't too full of gas.

By the way, if using a spare battery, include a 10A fuse in your rigged wiring.
yl gave out this great tip when I wanted to confirm a bad pump and get on with ordering a new one online.
A quick, direct upstream test to run the pump, if the pump worked then the next in line would be the relay.
 
#14 ·
Thanks Tom.

It has turned REALLY cold -35 C so I have not done anymore work on the car. As soon as it warms up a bit I will do the tests.

Craig, I found out that the pump works as when I jumped pins 30 and 87 it turned on and ran (and the car started). I really think it was an intermittent problem in the relay, but again I will do Tom's tests and also take the cover off the relay to check its condition.

One could say don't worry about it if it works now, but I don't want my battery drained again, then frozen. Nor do I want to be stranded in this cold winter.

Thanks everyone.
 
#15 ·
If it happens again. You can use VCDS or cranking to activate the relay. (make sure the relay does activate)
While it won't start, with the relay activated check the voltage at fuses #28 and #32.
If #28 is more than 1V lower than #32, you can be pretty sure the relay is the problem, the other items in that
circuit (as mentioned earlier) are also possibilities, but much less likely.
If the voltage is about 12V at both fuses and the FP is not running, the fault is in the wiring from the fuse to the FP, the FP, or the FP ground.
 
#17 ·
I just had very similar issues. Replaced my CTS and it's all good. $20 fix
There are very many possible faults that can prevent a car from starting.
I have not heard of the CTS preventing the fuel pump from running, and don't believe it can.
The CTS can be easily checked with VCDS, if the temp reading in the ECU is about the same as the reading in the instruments,
and are about equal to the current coolant temp, the CTS is functioning correctly.