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Fuel leak...........venting issue????

52K views 121 replies 27 participants last post by  lreven2  
#1 ·
I accidentally posted this in the wrong forum, so here it is........

Hey all, just joined the site as we picked up our second Passat back in June. We had a 1995 years ago.

We have a 2005 Passat 1.8 T 4motion wagon.

We are currently on the way back home ftom vacation. Don't worry she is driving lol.

We started having that fuel smell after fill ups that would go away after about 1/4 was used up. I finally noticed a drip under the car but it was near the driver side rear wheel (all the posts I've seen has the leak on passenger side). Not much I could do under the car until I get home. But i pulled the fuel pump access under the rear seat while filling up. Gas appeared on the inward portion of the gas tank (under the center seat) and around that side if the circle for the pump. I don't think it is coming ftom the circular seal since it would have to defy gravity to get to the top of the tank.

I know about the 2008 recall and confirmed with VW that the geat shield portion was done and the other inspected vent issue inspected but not replaced.

I am guessing it is that venting issue since the leak goes away with less gas in the tank???
Any help appreciated.


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#3 ·
There is a little known recall/warranty replacement on the 4motion gas tanks from a valve that deteriorates. Sounds exactly like a similar issue I encountered about 3-4 years ago while on vacation at H20i. My leak, when noticed, was alot more severe than yours. Gas was literally pouring out of the tank.. drivers side, visible if the seat bottom was removed.

The dealer may or may not know about this issue. I had to call VW customer care. The initial rep I talked to didn't know anything about it but once I asked to talk to a supervisor, they found out it was a known issue and covered. They have to replace the entire tank with a new one since the valve is built into the tank...

I'll see if I can find the thread I started on the issue...
 
#4 ·
Here is the pic, this is the access under the rear driver side seat, I only posted this one as the leak is directly below this point on the ground (actually a little farther back between the seat and rear wheel is where the drip is on the ground). The arrow is the direction of "flow" it comes from the center towards this point and the yellow outline is where the fuel can be seen. It cannot be seen on the door side just on the inward side. The pic was taken when the leak wasn't visible (the tank was 1/2 full).

 
#6 ·
PiSSAT4motion, yup I found your post. I guess I'm calling VW and complaining to get this done? When we were on our trip I called the dealer we got it from and who did all the work; they said the recall was completed on it but like you say the 4motion part was just skipped over possibly.

Even if they inspected it and it fails later wouldn't that be under the recall?
 
#7 ·
yes. The recall that they perform is only an inspection of the valve. If the valve is fine during the inspection, they mark the recall as completed. That's all the dealership sees is that its been completed, which really means for 4motion owners that the heat shielding and fuel line portion were done and an inspection of the tank vent valve was done. That's what happened in my case.
If a leak occurs later on, it's still covered. VW is only replacing the tanks when they eventually leak, so only when the valve fails is a replacement done.

You might be able to explain it to the dealer and have them escalate the issue or you may have to call VW customer care... and even then you have to know what you're talking about or the person you initially talk to may try to blow you off.

*Completed in this case only means an inspection of the part... x100000000. Once a leak occurs they have to replace the entire tank. *


If you have issues with it let me know and I'll try to get a copy of the work order from my dealership to see how it was written up/reported.
 
#8 ·
Oh yes the fight has begun already.

VW Dealer said the recall work was done and that is all that can be done. If I want them to diagnose the issue they can, for a fee of course, but any work is billable. Contacted VWoA, they say the work was done and I pointed out the 4motion caveat. I am working on getting the actual service record hard copy from the dealer showing work performed and parts replaced if any (ventilation valve, hose or entire fuel tank), I am personally thinking nothing was replaced and only "inspected".

So I will have to get VW to actually pull it apart to look at it, and the fun begins.
 
#9 ·
Sounds very similar to what happened to me. Did you talk to anyone besides the first VWoA rep? I asked to talk to "someone else", which ended up being a supervisor, when the first rep for VW kept repeating (literally), that the recall was completed and nothing else could be done. I had to insist on talking to someone else because when I first asked she acted as though she didnt want to.
I'd keep with VWoA and just escalate is past the first rep you speak with if they are not helpful or willing to listen.

2004 Volkswagen Passat Recalls

Anything short of the tank being replaced means only the inspection was done. The ventilation valve is made into the tank and can't be replaced separately. The thing that pisses me off about this is that unless you are in the know and keep pushing the issue, you, me or anyone else that encounters this issue could get stuck with a crazy high repair bill out of pocket. If you have too hard a time getting things resolved I'll do what I can to help... whether its getting my case number from VWoA for you to use or my service record from my dealer.
 
#10 ·
Thanks PiSSAT4motion. So far VWoA has been helpful, the dealer, not so much. VWoA said someone needs to look at it first (obviously) so we'lll get that done soon and see what happens. I am fairly certain the venting is the issue, since the leak goes away (and the gas odor) when the tank gets down to 3/4 full, logic would dictate it is the upper part of either the tank itself or something else (the vent). I had similar issues with an old Volvo I was getting back up and running. After replacing the fuel pump (in tank) on fill up the thing would leak oil (much worse than the Passat). The same thing there, after 1/4 tank burned off or less the leak stops. Turns our the sealing ring failed and it would just overflow from there. I pulled all three of the hatches (rear seats and wagon compartment) and the driver side rear seat is where you see the fuel dripping down from the top.

I told the dealer I wanted the hard copy of the repair order but they seemed disinterested and that they would get back to me.

Will keep you posted. Just irritated that we got the thing in June, used of course with 90K miles, and at 95K this happens. When we first got it, there was a small fuel smell but didn't think anything of it, but after seeing the leak, 1500 miles away from home, my blood pressure shot up a little.
 
#11 ·
I was only ~400 miles from home when mine bit the dust.. lol. VWoA told me the same about having the dealer make sure the vent was the issue, but once they find out it is, that fee is also covered/waived. Your mileage is pretty close to the mileage I had on mine at the time.

Sounds like youre headed in the right direction to get it resolved. Maybe the dealer will give you a loaner... I had a CC for ~3 days.
 
#12 ·
I thought I would mention a problem that I had written a thread about "02 vw passat gas tank replacement". The issue with this model is that the tank has a fault with the ROLL OVER VALVE in the tank. There is a problem that with time the roll over valve is developing a leak when the fuel is at it's highest point in the tank. What you have explained is exactly the issues I had and my local VW dealership told me it was a developing common problem with these cars as the cars and fuel tanks age. The roll over valve is just that, it is designed to stop fuel from coming out of the tank during a roll over accident. I hope this helps with your problem a little anyway.
 
#13 · (Edited)
UPDATE: The Passat is at the dealer for "diagnosis" and the regional VW manager should be getting back to me by end of day tomorrow. I just escalated it right off the bat to VWoA, didn't want to waste any of my time, or a dealer's time with a long drawn out process.

Update: Well, I keep getting the same answer, "it was completed", but nobody can tell me what "completed" means. Was the tank replaced/repaired or was it just "inspected". Obviously the only way to even inspect it is to drop the gas tank, which yes I know is a pain but I'm a little concerned with 16 gallons of fuel underneath my kids.
 
#16 ·
Update: They escalated it up to the RCM (regional case manager) but it seems everyone at VWofA is and RCM. They confirmed that there was NO replacement during the "completion" of the recall. Which, to me, means they just rolled the dice and hoped it wouldn't fail in the future. The RCM said that they were "escalating" it yet again to the warranty department to see if they'll replace the fuel tank.

Funny thing is, they've yet to actually drop the tank and actually diagnose the problem. I know dropping fuel tanks is a royal pain (I've done it before myself in my garage, talk about a pain) but until they do they cannot properly make the diagnosis.

I am supposed to hear back from the RCM either today or tomorrow.

I have a feeling they're going to come back with, "its not covered and we'll fix it for a discount" or something like that. not going to happen, they didn't fix the recall and I have a $9,000 used car I bought with 100 lbs of explosive fuel sitting under my children which can explode with the right conditions. They will replace the tank, they just don't know it yet lol
 
#18 ·
Seems you went around a bit more than I had to. Glad its getting replaced finally. I hate to think what they'd charge out of pocket to do the repair.

I'm not sure they have to drop it to diagnose it. When I got help on the fly at H2Oi, the guys were able to diagnose and rig a repair through the access under the back seat lol.
 
#21 ·
If your car has the 4motion tank it could be the problem. Just make sure you know/understand what the recall/repair is about before talking to the dealer or VWofA because more than likely the persons you initially speak to will have no idea..
 
#22 ·
Just got the car back on Wednesday, finally. All fixed and $0 cost. Should have had them pick up the tab for a rental car but the wife didn't complain too much (yeah right) having to drive the old mini van with no A/C.

Definitely do some homework tcervinsky, the recall has 3 issues addressed and only the 4motion is gas tank related. Chances are they did the first two; the heat shield and the fuel line in the engine bay, but the third which is for 1.8T 4motion only, is the fuel vent valve. Chances are they'll say it was "completed" but that doesn't say if it was replaced. As with my car, they probably just rolled the dice and didn't replace anything in the hopes the problem wouldn't develop. The NHTSA (nhtsa.gov) website is a good place for investigating.

If all else fails, just tell them driving around with 100lbs of explosive fuel underneath you kids car seat is unnerving, that seemed to kick them in gear with my car.
 
#23 ·
it looks like i'm about to start this entire process. 4motion passat manual wagon with 90000 mile. original owner. dealer says- but that recall has been taken care of...blah blah blah.
i'm going to fill the tank and drop it off tomorrow. any other advice?
 
#25 ·
Just like nuclearseal said, you'll have to know what you're talking about before you talk to anyone. Just as you've found out "nobody don't know nothin' " when it comes to this issue... especially at the dealer (unless they've run across the issue before).

The only thing done during the recall is to check to make sure there is no leak...if no leak, recall complete. VWofA is apparently rolling the dice on the cars being off the rode and scrapped before a leak occurs saving them $2000/ per 4motion (~5000 total sold in the US, I believe) or better yet, uninformed owners just paying for the repair themselves once a dealer spouts "recall completed":thumbdown. BUT, once a leak occurs it is still covered under the recall and should be replaced free of charge...

Read through this thread and mine (which is linked in this thread) to get an understanding of the problem and what the "recall" actually is.. then escalate it to VWofA. Even at VWofA, the first person you speak to probably has no idea:banghead:

Jump through the few hoops and it should get resolved... good luck
 
#24 ·
Recall "taken care of", doesn't mean anything, they can just look at it and it's "completed". Essentially they are rolling the dice in the hopes it won't fail in the future. If they replaced it during the recall that is one thing but not cost effective to replace every tank. Easier to say it was recalled, it was "completed" case closed according to them. But if that same part wasn't replaced when the recall was completed they are still on the hook for it when it fails. Seems they all start to fail in that 90k miles range.

You might have to escalate it but like said earlier in this string do your homework because chances are you'll know more than the customer rep you talk to.

Worst case just us the term 'explosives under child's seat' thats what worked for me lol


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#28 ·
Audipmpn, what car do you have? same symptoms? It takes a bit of calling and emails to get it done but in the end VW is still responsible for the recall. There are several complaints on the NHTSA website already (including mine), so they know it's an issue, they obviously don't want to pay out any more money for free repairs then they have to.

UPDATE: Audi, I looked up your previous posts. Sounds like a similar situation to what I had. The basics are this: there are 3 parts to the recall. 1) heat shield issue, 2) fuel line in the engine compartment and 3) and this is ONLY for the 4motion is the fuel tank venting issue. If you call the dealer you'll probably hear "the recall was completed" and completed could simply mean they looked at it, or it wasn't leaking so it's "completed", welcome to VW dealer politically correct talk. Unless they actually dropped the tank and fixed the part, it isn't "completed". The recall started in 2001 I think? So even if they "complete" it a year later, as in just roll the dice since it isn't leaking yet, if the original part fails at a later date, it IS still covered under the recall. Just because the part didn't fail and need to be replaced when the recall came out doesn't mean they aren't responsible.

Basically they just roll the dice and hope it doesn't become an issue on your car. And if you bring it in for recall and they "complete" it without actually replacing it, they assume you'll just pay for it the next time since the recall was "complete".

We bought our 4motion used, with 100K on the odometer. It was dealer serviced the entire time. I was on vacation when the leak started and called the dealer service center and got the "it was completed" run around. The rest of the vacation we filled up the tank 1/2 way and I did researching for hours to figure it out, including this message board which ended up helping tremendously.

You have to be tough and just be blunt, I told them, if the part wasn't replaced when it was in for recall then you're fixing it, the only way to find out what is wrong is to drop the tank. After I escalated it to VW regional and told them I had 2 kids sitting on 100lbs of explosive liquid, they changed their tune. Keep us upated. It's a known problem and they should fix it, period.
 
#29 ·
I just had this issue occur on my 4 motion this weekend. I popped the cover after filling it up and it is obvious it is the vent. I called VW and got the "recall was already done in 2008" speech. I am taking it to the dealer tomorrow and see if between them and me, we can get this done.
 
#31 ·
P0455 After Tank Replacement

Finally got VW to replace the tank. It took almost a month. Basically, after I convinced the first person I talked to to escalate the issue, it was taken care of. It just took them a month to figure it all out and do the work. The local dealer was the weakest link. They ended up having the car for a total of 4 days so far to do the 7.5 hours worth of work. They called me when they were done - you have a check engine light, do you want us to take care of it? It didn't have one when I took it in and I figured they knocked the SAIP hose loose like last time so I just told them "no". When I pulled the codes, though, it was P0455 - EVAP Large Leak Detected - which means they didn't hook something up right. I checked all the connections at the rear passenger fender and EVAP canister and all is tight. Back to the dealer for 4 more days while they figure out what they didnt hook up/ broke
Image


In addition, they left it with so little gas I wasn't sure I could make it a few blocks to the gas station and fill it up (I dropped it with a 1/4 tank). Also, the first time I pulled the e-brake, it went all the way to the top so I had to adjust those when I got home.

All in all, I am much happier fixing my own stuff and I miss my old dealer!