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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1160842,00.html

David Kay, the man who led the CIA's postwar effort to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, has called on the Bush administration to "come clean with the American people" and admit it was wrong about the existence of the weapons.
do you think bush will ever admit he was wrong? will he do the Right Thing(tm) or keep bullshitting us and act like he was always in the right?

is admitting you were wrong a sign of weakness, in his mind? something a pres. just cannot do (to save face)?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
hotani said:
Will he gain votes or lose them by doing this? Hmmmm- hard to say.... but that is where the answer lies.
I think coming clean and saying "I was wrong" will gain him AMAZING points in the eyes of america (and also the world).

but its an unwritten rule. in power, never admit you were wrong since its a sign of weakness.

no ceo will ever ever do it. no pres, either.

its a shame. you are often a bigger 'man' by saying you were wrong than being head-strong and never ever giving in.

oh well. admitting you were wrong is a sign of an evolved being. ok, I'll stop there... ;)
 

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I hope he doesn't. If he did, he might acually regain some of the trust he's lost...and that would be bad for November.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
JokerUNM said:
I hope he doesn't. If he did, he might acually regain some of the trust he's lost...and that would be bad for November.
I was thinking the same thing!

sometimes, bush 'just being bush' is the best thing us bush-bashers can hope for. show your true colors, mr. pres! we LIKE that, sometimes ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
great picture I saw on fark today:



wow, he CLEARLY was in the military and gots lots of useful experience there. his training with military gear is so clear from this picture (ha!) ;)
 

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Hhmmm, IF Bush says that there are no WMDs then I guess that make Clinton and the UN liars also.

Yeah, we should've trusted in Sadaam more than our own presidents. I mean just look at how our country is run by these Republican Tyrants that want only world domination and control all the OIL in the world. God knows the Oil companies don't have enough money to support their Birthday Party bashes.
Sadaam is My hero. He stood up agains these westerners wanting to take over his country.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
saddam was a bastard.

there are MANY such bastards in the world.

we picked one to, well, pick on. we could have chosen others. others who are equally as bad.

guess why we didn't?

(that's a homework assignment for you)

;)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I distinctly remember a firm and resounding speech from colin at the UN meeting saying 'we KNOW and have FACTS'. he acted as if he had personally seen these WMD, he was THAT cock-sure about himself.

he should resign in disgrace. really. bush is known to be an idiot, so we didn't expect too much from him. but colin, oh man, how YOU have betrayed us, as well?!

sigh ;(
 

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Discussion Starter #14
91 16V Jetta said:
linux, give it up. They had wmd, they were trying to aquire wmd, they were trying to make wmd. You are full of propaganda and you know it.

I believe they were pursuing them and would use them, if any one in that region would, saddam would. he was a 'very very bad man' (no, not jerry, this time..) ;)

but why isn't there evidence, in all this time we've been looking?

I know, it doesn't "make sense". he sure SEEMED and ACTED like he had them. we all know that. and that's why we were so easily led to believe that our gov had PROOF POSITIVE of this.

but how can you argue with the inspectors and all this time, both pre and post war, and still no smoking gun?

time to fess up. saddam was a brutal dictator and wronged his own people (and neighbors) immensely. I'm glad he has been toppled. but I question the bait-and-switch tactic that bush seems to have used to us to JUSTIFY the last war.

its a Good Thing(tm) that saddam is out of commission. but did we have to spend so much on it? and we'll be spending, for years and years and our kids will, also. very very expensive, in more ways than money, too.

wmd was our battle cry and our justification. "he is very close to destroying the US - we have to get him now or we'll all die!". well, we bought it - but now there seems to have been a lack of wmd and an abundance of lies.

if we were NOT in 'imminent danger', there's just no way we should have waged a war.
 

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linux-works said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1160842,00.html

David Kay, the man who led the CIA's postwar effort to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, has called on the Bush administration to "come clean with the American people" and admit it was wrong about the existence of the weapons.
do you think bush will ever admit he was wrong? will he do the Right Thing(tm) or keep bullshitting us and act like he was always in the right?

is admitting you were wrong a sign of weakness, in his mind? something a pres. just cannot do (to save face)?
you know something, I watched David Kay on Larry King and I'll be damned if I didn't essentially hear him that we were right in what we do. I'm starting to think that David Kay is the one who is waffling on this subject.
 

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linux, I'm going to speak real slowly here so you can understand this once and for all so you can finally quit throwing you liberal propaganda around.

THEY WERE MAKING WMD!!! YES, IN IRAQ!!!



Vials: A total of 97 vials-including those with labels consistent with the al Hakam cover stories of single-cell protein and biopesticides, as well as strains that could be used to produce BW agents-were recovered from a scientist's residence.



Lab Equipment From Mosque.



Burned Documents Found at SAAD Center: An exploitation team on a recent mission to the SAAD Center, part of the Baghdad New Nuclear Design Center, found massive looting and the remnants of deliberately destroyed documents. Other documents were left untouched, however, and recovered by the team



Storage room in basement of Revolutionary Command Council Headquarters. Burned frames of PC workstations visible on shelves. All rooms sharing walls with this storage room were untouched from fire or battle damage.



Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The basement historical files were systematically selected and destroyed.


You cannot wait until it's too late when dealing with terrorists. Saddam was given plenty of time to cooperate, but now he's going to pay the ultimate penalty, thanks to the Iraqi people. BTW, these pictures and descriptions are from David "john-kerry" McKay, Oct 2003. Feel free to read the entire report here (and please do so we don't have to go over this again): http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2003/david_kay_10022003.html
 

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91 16v,

Don answer this question again. You have refused to for months. I'm going to ask it anyhow. If:

1) a country possess WMD it can be justifiably invaded
2) said country has a history of destabilizing the region
3) country has a history of human rights violations
4) country demonstrates genocidal tendencies

it can justifiably be invaded and have its 'regime toppled'. What is the argument against any country on earth doing the same thing to us? Don't make me yet again post the stories and links validating the fact that our country does and has done each thing on the list we used to justify our invasion of Iraq. Just answer the question. Why is this behaviour so reprehensible that we MUST invade a nation but 'normal and OK' for our nation to do?
 

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Simple spirare (but still too complicated for you?). Because our national security was at risk. The 30+ other countries that joined us decided the same thing.

Don't try and put the liberal spin on this to make President Bush look bad. And don't refuse to answer my question either: Is the world a safer place with or without saddam?
 

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Spirare said:
91 16v,

Don answer this question again. You have refused to for months. I'm going to ask it anyhow. If:

1) a country possess WMD it can be justifiably invaded
2) said country has a history of destabilizing the region
3) country has a history of human rights violations
4) country demonstrates genocidal tendencies

it can justifiably be invaded and have its 'regime toppled'. What is the argument against any country on earth doing the same thing to us? Don't make me yet again post the stories and links validating the fact that our country does and has done each thing on the list we used to justify our invasion of Iraq. Just answer the question. Why is this behaviour so reprehensible that we MUST invade a nation but 'normal and OK' for our nation to do?
Spirare

So, I guess what you are saying is you trust everyone else BUT YOUR OWN COUNTRY? Just clarify that for me please. Your arguments have been shut down every time you have brought them up. You think the worst thing to happen on this planet is the United State. You must also think the United Nations is the BEST thing that has happened to the planet. Not once have YOU proven your statements and there are pictures to PROVE that Iraq had WMD's. I guess though if the administration comes "clean" then the UN and the clinton administration must come "clean" also but your gods couldn't be WRONG could they? Not to mention England don't forget much of our intel was from them and that we confirmed it through CID documentation and from Saddam’s own people HIS SON IN LAWS. Why not just say you HATE the Bush administration and you think it would be better if he was gone? I think you should at least say at the beginning your hatred for everything Republican.

Remember, read before you write, learn before you teach.
 

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I agree that the world is probably safer without Saddam specifically. I will again say that doesn't justify war. Don't paint me the simpleton. I am asking you a question about logic. Just because 30+ other countries agreed to invade Iraq and because the world is safer doesn't answer my question. Why are we to not be invaded for commiting the same crimes? This was the root of my protest against going to war in the beginning. If we justify a war for reasons that justify war against us we deserve what we get in the realm of terrorism. It is BAD foreign policy and at best incredibly flawed logic. When another Nation 'God forbid' invades us (whether this scenario is likely or not) and they use the 'Bush Doctrine' to validate themselves what do we do?
 
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