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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a '98 AEB Tip. What would happen if I recoded the ECU to "manual", keeping the Tip tranny?

The reason I'm asking is that I think the ECU may briefly retard timing during upshifts. This is fine on an unchipped car without any tranny mods, but on my car (Tip recode, Redline D4, Tip Chip) the car shifts so fast that the ECU's timing retard is superfluous and results in a bog. :suspicio: Maybe manual tranny mode would get rid of this, but what else is going to bite my butt? Does the Tip require any signals from the ECU that it wouldn't get in Manual mode?
 

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You get CEL's. Another post in here from a new '99 owner had that problem. Previous owner probably had a chipped ECU, switched in a stocker, but failed to recode. The new owner had CEL's until he got it Vag-Com'd....

As far as any other signals i don't know. I can think of reasons why it may....but don't really know.
 

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The code is probably just from the improper coding, but the ecu coding does definitely retard the timing during shifts to create torque reduction to allow the car to lock out under less load... When I first got my ecu it was coded manual, I drove it for 2 days that way with no code...then I switched to the 06051 code...wayyyy back when....

With the power you are dealing with now, you should chip the tranny to lock out faster, the Tip chip is less than stellar for driving feel, but it definitely makes me feel better knowing the clamping pressure has been increased and the actuation sped up.

if you unlocked the converter with torque, that is not to cool :nervous:

Did it throw a code to confirm that?

That scares me...

TJ
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
------TJ------ said:
...the ecu coding does definitely retard the timing during shifts
Thanks, TJ - can you verify this? Do you have doc, did you read it, hear it from someone, etc.? I can see the retard happen when I log data, so I know it's there, I just want to know why.

------TJ------ said:
to create torque reduction to allow the car to lock out under less load...
Would you elaborate? I do not understand.

------TJ------ said:
When I first got my ecu it was coded manual, I drove it for 2 days that way with no code...then I switched to the 06051 code...wayyyy back when....
Would you elaborate? How well did it run and shift during those 2 days?

------TJ------ said:
With the power you are dealing with now, you should chip the tranny to lock out faster, the Tip chip is less than stellar for driving feel, but it definitely makes me feel better knowing the clamping pressure has been increased and the actuation sped up.
My tranny is chipped, D4'd, and sport-coded - that's the problem. I shift so fast now that the timing retard happens after the shift instead of during. So the car bogs for a half-second or so right after a shift instead of hooking up and moving.

------TJ------ said:
if you unlocked the converter with torque, that is not to cool :nervous:

Did it throw a code to confirm that?

That scares me...

TJ
No codes. I posted the behavior here and the consensus was that the TQ was de-locking. I'll try to find it... here it is:Torque Converter De-Lock at High Boost/Load? Note that this was before D4 and Tip Chip.
 

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So, in your De-Lock string (I like how you extend the english language), did the D4 or Tip Chip solve the problem of your torque converter unlocking?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
ganseg said:
So, in your De-Lock string (I like how you extend the english language), did the D4 or Tip Chip solve the problem of your torque converter unlocking?
I can't replicate it. The car is not the same setup it was back then. Plus, I was driving through the Tenessee mountains (about 1000ft altitude) in February, about 20F. Super cold, super thick air.
 

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i feel the same bog after the shift. i have the tip chip but still on o.e. fluid, not for long though. i'd like to see how this turns out, this thought sounds to me like it has potential. :thumbup: rusty!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
1.8tbeout said:
i feel the same bog after the shift. i have the tip chip but still on o.e. fluid, not for long though. i'd like to see how this turns out, this thought sounds to me like it has potential. :thumbup: rusty!
l5gcw0b said:
This is something all of us AEB'ers would like to see resolved.
So I'm not the only one? Well, that makes me feel better.
I'm going to wait a few days for more feedback, but this looks like one of those things I'm just going to have to try on my own... :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Bump. A similar post on Vortex brought a response of "tranny goes into limp mode, stays in third gear", but I wonder if that might be peculiar to the DBW and/or transverse engines...
 

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Rusty,
if I am not mistaken, the tell tale sign of torque reduction during a shift is a pulse from the TCM called "engine intervention request" or something like that...you can see it in logs of the ECU at certain data blocks..I forget..I remember this cuz it's scary terminology when you first start logging :)

The timing is retarded to lower the output of the motor to provide an easier time for the TC to achieve lockout without stress, or at minimum provide a smooth shift, not "dumping the clutch" if I may use that phrase here :)

As far as running the car in manual coding, I am not sure that would be a great idea...The load correction values are based off the ECU soft coding, a lot of the map/timing etc. comes from lookup tables in the ECU based off the coding...that is why we as tip guys get screwed, because the chips are 90% of the time written on 5 speed cars and just aproximated by the coding of the ECU to run in a TIP situation.

I drove the car that way WAYYY back, but as I remember it was not terribly different or erratic...try it and log the timing under specific "control" types of situations 1st thru 3rd WOT under the same data block, see what you find?

Now I am curious? :)


TJ
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Cool, thanks TJ! I have a billion things happening all at once, so it may be a couple months before I can try this.

1.8tbeout - looks like you might be the trailblazer here... :thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
B5V6 said:
Good luck Rusty. What is involved in fixing a shifter magnet?
I am going to find out... will be running the VW magnet through a gaussmeter later today, then will try and find a magnet of the same dimensions with an equivalent magnetic field. If I can't (highly probable), I'll buy a bigger magnet and have the shop here at work machine it down. If I find a source, and the magnets work, I'll sure tell everyone...

I really despise the spirit that designs a car with cheap, 2-cent magnets that fail at 100,000 miles requiring you to buy a multi-hundred dollar replacement assembly. That is total bullsh*t.
 

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Rusty said:
I have a '98 AEB Tip. What would happen if I recoded the ECU to "manual", keeping the Tip tranny?

The reason I'm asking is that I think the ECU may briefly retard timing during upshifts. This is fine on an unchipped car without any tranny mods, but on my car (Tip recode, Redline D4, Tip Chip) the car shifts so fast that the ECU's timing retard is superfluous and results in a bog. :suspicio: Maybe manual tranny mode would get rid of this, but what else is going to bite my butt? Does the Tip require any signals from the ECU that it wouldn't get in Manual mode?
Rusty,

Have you tried undoing the Tip Sports mode and see if it helps?...

I've been driving with Tip Sports Mode for over 6 months, maybe longer on my 03 wagon. What I've recently observed was that Tip mode does retard tip/torque converter engagment time. Maybe this is the way to let the engine rev higher quicker, but it certainly can't be good for the tranny when it happens all the time.

In any rate, maybe in your case with your tip sports mode along with tip chip and D4 ATF, your car now behaves differently from what the ECU is predicting your trainy to behave in the Tip Sports Mode. It's possible that your ECU expects your engine to rev higher quicker, but it does not happen, because your tip mods made the tip engage much quicker and won't allow your engine to rev freely as high in the given time. This deviation of given Sports Mode Protocol (if it exists) maybe retarding your timing and requires ecu to adjust timing?....

I'm not the expert, so don't take my word for any of the comments, it's just my hypothesis base upon my observations.

I've currently disabled the tip sports mode and do experience quicker gear engagement time and also better MPG. I do miss the sports mode time to time, but I just put it in tip mode now instead.
 
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