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Discussion Starter #1
Naturally we are all upset about the carnage, regrettably this is all too common and will most certainly be done again until USA implements bullet or machine restrictions.

I'm not certain we will get a true read on this killer. Was the guy a:

1. Mentally unstable, violent person that had extreme issues with homosexuality?
2. Terrorist wanna-be that recently pledged allegiance to a group to make his actions seem larger than just himself?
3. A homosexual in denial of his deepest feelings?

or all of the above?

I don't want to get into a gun debate, this would be non-productive. I'm trying to see what you think this guy was trying to achieve? He grew up in USA, you'd think he would have learned to accept differences better than someone who was raised in less inclusive environs.
Ken
 

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I think it goes without saying he was a homophobe--such a targeted attack on a LGBT nightclub makes that seem pretty clear. Regarding him being a terrorist--I would classify anyone who commits such an act as a terrorist. Whether or not he was part of a bigger group, I guess we will see in the coming days if any group takes responsibility. Although I don't think it was a group, seems like another individual with outlandish views on homosexuality. What was he trying to accomplish? My guess is the same thing as everyone else who has gone and shot up a theater, or a school, or a sporting event. To cause hurt and inflict pain, and to be forever immortalized after death by the news and in the history books. And probably some fanatical religious views--no terrorist is complete without those. I don't really care what religion it was--none of the major world religions would ever condone such an act, and to tie him to any of those is a disservice to the millions of people who peacefully practice their religion. I wouldn't lump all Christians in with that guy who shot up a Black church a while back, and I'm not going to lump in all Muslims with this nut.

And unfortunately, growing up in the USA doesn't mean you can accept differences. Don't forget that there's a significant portion of the population who wants to elect Trump to the White House. There's thousands of tweets going around about how the shooter was in the right. LGBT+ people have made huge strides in equality recently, but the fight is far from over.

Honestly, I've felt sick all day. I'm at work but I can't get anything done. I'm a gay male. Sometimes, I go to nightclubs. That could have been me. It could have been my partner, my friends. I didn't know anyone in Orlando, but dear God this one hit close to home. For the first time, I'm scared. I never thought the day would come where I would feel unsafe in my home country. But I do. The fact that homophobia is still accepted, the fact we've got politicians that still actively campaign and work to take away my rights, these things contribute to events like this. Of course you expect to see people like Westboro Baptist Church applauding things like this, but when you see regular people doing that...you start to see the problem.

Never forget--the biggest mass shooting in US history was a hate crime against gay people. I encourage everyone today and in the coming week, if you have a friend or family member who identifies somewhere on the LGBT+ spectrum, talk to them. Tell them how much you care about them. Because that's how we stand up to things like this, through accepting and loving others as they are.

Sorry for the long post--I don't usually talk about stuff like this on car forums but it's just been a really weird day for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I appreciate your message, and I thank you for the suggestion for us to reach out to our LGBT friends, neighbours, family to remind them that they are appreciated and loved.
 

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As I recall, being homophobic is part of being a follower of the religion of Islam (which the shooter followed).

How many LGBT people do you think there are in Iran??? You can rest assured that if they are alive there, their SP is still in the closet. (off point a bit to show the Islamic/Homophobic connection)

One diminishing (exponentially it seems) point about immigrating to this country is you have to assimilate to a degree (PC put an end to that in the 1990's though...thanks Slick Willie). See news stories on what the killer's dad thinks about what his son did. SMH

Not justifying what this guy did in any way...but our "borders" (if you can call them that) aren't what they were in the '80s.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The newest reports suggest that this guy was struggling with his own sexuality. His family would not have accepted him if he was gay, it would appear he was jealous of those who could display their lifestyle with no social repercussions, so he must have felt that eliminating these people would somehow help his inner conflict.

Sad that his culture & community was not accepting.
 

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Any military person who has spent time working with locals in the dessert can tell you those boys will "power bottom all day long" as a retired Major friend of mine said. I find those reports just trying to justify his actions in some way that it's excusable and the writers of that drivel are morons.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I should accept that I have no real clue to what this idiot was thinking. For that matter nobody will ever 100% be certain what his motivation was. Too late.

If this event encourages people to pay attention to the 'danger signals' this guy gave off PRIOR to his slaughter, maybe the next one could be prevented ?

However the media wants to spin, their focus is to sell papers, get your clicks - the truth won't change the result. Whatever blogger wants to create traffic with his/her opinion it is only trying to fan flames of their agenda: pick one or all: pro-NRA, anti-Muslim, anti-foreigners, anti-anyone not like me, anti-non hetrosexual, anti-non meat eater, etc.

But the internet is the domain of polarized opinion, there is no risk to your face by making a typed threat or nasty retort while you sit in your boxers and eat Doritos with a spoon.
 

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Yeah it is hard to climb into someone's head and know what they are ACTUALLY about. Although lots of people who, in their mind and heart question their sexual orientation, publicly act like homophones and are against anything "gay". Against any gay rights but are found with "rent boys", in mens rooms cruising,etc. It just falls under the heading of HYPOCRISY to me. Not a Clinton fan but isn't it funny how everyone involved in impeaching him over a blow job have they themselves been involved in or convicted of, some sort of "inappropriateness" ? Anyway, rather than this guy being an outspoken anti-gay person, he chose to use violence. I think - even as a gay married guy, it speaks to more of a mental health issue than his homophobia. If he hated sour cream and was unstable, he'd have shot up a sour cream facility. His "mental health" just found something to latch onto. Maybe he was truly closeted and because of his father's beliefs, fear of what family,friends,etc, would think of him if he came out as gay, manifested into "I have to kill gays so I won't be gay". I know from my own experience of "living in the closet", as well as many others in the gay community, fear of what family and friends will think is a major factor in remaining in the closet. Somehow the gay community is not entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness because of someone else's beliefs of what those things are. And somehow asking for the same rights as everyone else is "special treatment". Our lives are "being forced down your throat ( THAT always makes me laugh) yet I never had a gay person knock on my door at 8am on a Sunday asking me to convert to, or believe in, the Word of the Gay LMFAO. Morality has become nothing but a talking point. You can't legislate it. Who's "morality" exactly are we to base our society on ? Mine ? Yours ? Someone who claims to be the pillar of morality and has been divorced 4 times ? Caught with prostitutes either male or female ? A bible that EVERYONE interprets in their own way ? To no avail, I always challenge people to show in REALITY, how my being with my hubby for as near as makes no difference, 15 years and married now for 8 months, has effected the "sanctity" of their relationships or marriages. The only responses to that are ALWAYS talking points. "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" blah blah blah.... The heterosexual 50+ percent divorce rate has ZERO effect on your sanctity but SOMEHOW we have effected your "sanctity". If that's the case, there is FAR MORE WRONG with your marriage than you care to admit.

Yes it is a tragedy and it's hard not to take it personally. It's human nature. He shot up a gay night club so OF COURSE the gay community is going to take it personally. If he shot up a church, it's members would take it personally.
 

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It was over perjury in a sworn deposition and that did cause him to be disbarred from practicing law.
That's all you took away ? ;) I agree but that in itself is still hypocrisy. It's OK if you lie about your infidelities - as EVERY person who commits it does - so long as you don't swear to god on it lol. YES totally agree that it's a matter of law but it's still BS hypocrisy judging anyone as a matter of law or "morality" when you yourself are guilty of the same sin. Under oath or not. That is a general defense and not solely a defense of Billy Boy.... It was just one of them there, um who said it..... Oh yeah.. A GOTCHA moment LOL...
 

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That's all you took away ? ;) I agree but that in itself is still hypocrisy. It's OK if you lie about your infidelities - as EVERY person who commits it does - so long as you don't swear to god on it lol. YES totally agree that it's a matter of law but it's still BS hypocrisy judging anyone as a matter of law or "morality" when you yourself are guilty of the same sin. Under oath or not. That is a general defense and not solely a defense of Billy Boy.... It was just one of them there, um who said it..... Oh yeah.. A GOTCHA moment LOL...
You don't perjury yourself in a deposition for a lawsuit against you, period. If the question is out of bounds your attorney will get it thrown out but if it's germaine to the suit you either don't answer or answer truthfully. Not seeing the hypocrisy in it myself and sorry for getting this side tracked. Stupid of me to go back to this crap even if my opinion will be the historically accurate one ;) .

Honestly I tried to read your whole post but between formatting and rambling I got stuck at Billy Boy. It's not right but it's what I did.
 

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... Not a Clinton fan but isn't it funny how everyone involved in impeaching him over lying under oath while testifying in the Paula Jones trial have they themselves been involved in or convicted of, some sort of "inappropriateness" ?...
Had to fix that to represent fact...but you're still entitled to your own opinions. :beer:

Slightly OT: Personally, I believe that homosexuality is not a choice (having listened to Neil Boortz commenting on the issue over a decade ago). Rather it's the result of hormonal imbalances in the womb and/or early/late testicle descending date during the mother's pregnancy. The father's genetic material makes the decision on the sex of the child, but there are other contributing factors that contribute to how manly or effeminate a male is...likewise for females.

As Neil said..."I don't believe anyone would go through the torment (this was in the early 2000s remember) those folks put up with just to have a lifestyle of homosexual preference".
 

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Had to fix that to represent fact...but you're still entitled to your own opinions. :beer:

Slightly OT: Personally, I believe that homosexuality is not a choice (having listened to Neil Boortz commenting on the issue over a decade ago). Rather it's the result of hormonal imbalances in the womb and/or early/late testicle descending date during the mother's pregnancy. The father's genetic material makes the decision on the sex of the child, but there are other contributing factors that contribute to how manly or effeminate a male is...likewise for females.

As Neil said..."I don't believe anyone would go through the torment (this was in the early 2000s remember) those folks put up with just to have a lifestyle of homosexual preference".

Agreed. And agree with Urlik about my tired and cranky rant :beer:

Saying homosexuality is a choice is just a talking point not based in reality. The topic of the OP is simply about a mentally imbalanced person. His being closeted or anything is a secondary issue. Not justifying his actions at all. People who have hidden who they truly are have done strange things. They've taken their own lives. They've been emotionally abusive to others. Perhaps since they feel out of control of their own lives, being abusive and controlling of others makes them feel better. Without being a fly on every wall of this guy's life, who knows what happened really.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I think we could all agree that the guy was mentally unstable. That he or anyone with such instability was able to purchase or own weapons is something that society should change.
Keep in mind that a car driven into pedestrians is potentially as deadly as a gun, so don't think that I have any interest in the debating gun control topic, my views are mine.

My original questions to his motivation will never be fully understood, but if people are encouraged to be more tolerant of others that are not like themselves, nothing bad would come from such change.
 

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Either way, hopefully everyone agreeing with me, on behalf of all muslim or non-muslim communities, countries and of the belief, I offer my sympathies to all families who have been hurt. It may or not mean much. I myself know a few people of the LGBT community. I almost everyday interactions and conversations with them. They are as normal as every other human being, with the same rights as every other human being. Its just a shame that USA is having a tough time adjusting to this community. Just for having a different than norm interest for relations in the same gender is no ground to be oppressive. As it was taught from Elementary school and up; America is a big melting pot, other times also mentioned as a fruit salad.

I doubt we will ever know what the shooter was actually thinking. Can only assume and guess but to be 100% sure if he was thinking straight or was under the trigger for only emotional reasons..... Clearly life isn't always fair but its definitely not in our role to penalize/punish others for having the dream we desire ourselves. Its sad that some people decide to be the judge of situations because life just sucked for them. Obviously people just need to deal with it and slowly show the good side instead of showing evil. He was not able to understand the issues he was experiencing, being "shunned" by his family and somewhat by the general community. He had issues, he should have asked for help, based on findings and probably knowledge, he was married. His spouse had a obligation to take care of her husband. Code of operations and moral ethics of family would list providing the best assistance to the spouse in times of darkness. I shouldn't be the one to point the finger, not my best of judgement but there are certain ideas that failed all around that made this incident happen. Almost always after these types of incidents happen the investigations tell the public mental problems were known for that suspect. Known? So these problems were known...........but had no early intervention?

In my college (still there) english class I wrote my final project topic on Unstable minds and Gun control. I wrote how the two should never be able to know/meet/obtain each other. There does seem to be a lack of resources available for unstable people to get. And it is tough to detect this illness. Symptoms aren't always crystal clear. General public is not well educated in this topic as they should be. Whether it falls into being embarrased to raise up the issue of a family member being mentally unstable could be one reason its not often reported.

Just a side note as, it may not seem obvious but its not always the non-muslims that are targeted. Just last month terrorism took place in one of the holiest places of worship for the so-called religion these terrorist say to claim they follow. But if he did try to raise a message about any religion having a involvement in this tragedy should just be laid to rest as bogus and illegitimate.

Personally, I ask that if you see I wrote something is wrong, please forgive me and I apologize for it. I am just putting out my thoughts.
 
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