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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/article_599.shtml

In light of all the recent "Why do people want SUV's" threads, I decided to post this here. The guy pretty much says that putting huge spinners and $10K of audio/video systems in a car is no different than one of us putting a VR6 into a 1988 Golf. Just wanted to see what the people around here thought of the same thing.
 

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Ahh....asinine article, just like a lot of the stuff over on the 'Tex.

Nice use of racial overtones to get the audience interested in bling, though :roll:

The "guy buying a new 911" shouldn't be applauded more than a Navigator customizer--they are both spending ridiculous $$ on fast-depreciating assets. But having worked in the car sales business, I can tell you which one of the two made the better decision from a depreciation POV.

Swapping a VR6 into an 88 Golf is breathing new life into a cheap, common car. That's a far cry from spending huge sums on pure image, IMO.
 

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Yes I definetly agree the SUV thing is pure image. However, I think's it also fair to say a lot of VW owners (especially on Clubb5) are for the most interested in getting the big flashy wheels (only it's 18's and 19's), body kits, car audio, etc. At a certain time I was also guilty of this as well. To me it's really pretty much the same, only perhaps the typical Passat is slightly more subtle. However, I think that's cool. Whatever makes you happy. If the pimped out Escalade was a really effective chick magnet, I think I'd learn to love the car as well. It could also serve as a tow vehicle for my track car. :D
 

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Votex body kits, HIDs, badgeless grilles, tinted glass, or chrome door handles are all image mods. In most cases, so are wheels, but you could argue that some wheels do provide better handling. I find it interesting how some people drop thousands of dollars into body kits and ICE, then complain about ricer Hondas and SUVs. The word "ricer" does have "tasteless" associated with it, but it also means a car that "looks" fast but isn't. A couple hundred pounds worth of ICE, wheels, and body kits isn't going to make a 150HP/190HP car faster.

I'm guilty of it as well...I have HIDs, a badgeless grille, and tinted glass, but my first mod ever was an UPsolute chip. The SUV drivers are doing the same things we are...trying to stand out in a sea of mass-produced cars and trucks. We can't fault them for that. Yeah, I think chrome spinners are wicked gay, but maybe the SUV-modder thinks my badgeless grille sucks. It's all relative...
 

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I am not going over to Vortex to check out the post.. Too busy right now, done with HW and about to sleep, but here is my 2 cents.
With the guy you noted as saying pimping up an SUV is the same as putting an VR6 in an old Golf i think is way off base. So is the 911 comment. This is about the world of speed vs looks, and for some the mix of it. You have one camp of people who are using there money to mod/buy faster, quicker cars while not paying too much attention to looks other then a standard body kit and new wheels.
They are waiting for the newest mod, faster engine and etc to come out so they can blow there money on.

On the other hand, you have the group that is about all image, they want the more unique body kit that is only on there car, they want the spinning rims that look like no one else and want a sound system that can blow off the cloths of a woman. They also want a car that shows off there status, and usually SUVs do as they are big.. Big means powerful, cost a lot and they also give a lot of space to work with.

On on both sides you have the tasteless people, the guy that think if they car sounds like a F1 car it will go as fast as an F1 car. Or the guy who buys the kits but cant wait to install it before he gets the money to paint it. Or talks about how much hp he gain from this simple intake mod (sorry, unless your a Turbo engine or a V-Twin, its not going to help!)

I really dont have a problem with any of the two kinds i mention at first, its the 3rd that kind of makes me laugh as i drive around and would get me to call a "ricer".
I am more in the 1st camp, i want a faster car.. I do think spending your money on a 911 is well worth it as your buying something that gives you a lot of power to start with even if you want to mod. But that JMHO.
But sometimes looks is a lot, i am owner a Harley owner, and part the reason i got it is for its look that makes Harley's a Harley and nothing else. Yeah Sport bike got the speed, but they all look the same once you take all the stickers off. And if you ride for over 100 miles, god help your back. And then i could have gone Jap bike, but its just seems it was not a Harley.
 

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MakH- I think a lot to do with the whole ricer thing and it's popularity, has to with events like SEMA/NOPI/Hot Import Nights, attention from media like TFATF, ricer TV-specials, car shows, etc. Seems like the US these days is just really playing to the ricer image. I don't care for it myself, but I could see how some ppl would find it really reinforcing with all the attention they are getting (good or bad) from ricing out their cars. Believe it or not, some chicks I've spoken to also seem to dig the ricer image. Ricing out a car is also a relatively inexpensive hobby for minimum wage-slave teens, so I think I could see how it's gotten so popular.

However, for better or worse, I predict the flamboyuancy of ricers will eventually backfire. A lot of ppl are already getting more into the subtler sleeper, euro, or JDM look. More and more ppl are getting into 15in wheels instead of the 18's and dubs. Soon, I think even CF will go out of style.

Then again, if you think about those ppl who mod for performance, it's also pretty absurd to throw in a 500hp race motor that will only use 110-oct race gas, gut the interior, throw out the A/C, run on slammed 1000lb spring rates, get $4000 6-piston race brakes, custom welded chromly cage, run R-compund slicks, Lexan windows, open header exhaust, etc, only to driving your car on the street as a daily driver (in Italy, Germany, Japan, or some lawless 3rd world country it would prob be fun though), and get stuck in traffic most of the time, or pulled over by cops. Rarely will the car see any track duty! Yet a lot of ppl also mod this way. Isn't that kinda silly in it's own right?
 

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As a closet modder, I got HIDs because I can see better with them, bigger wheels (17s) because they are about the limit for performance improvement without getting into weight issues, a chip because I want to be a bit faster/more powerful off the line, some miscellaneous badging/vinyl (CB5, local club, and my girl! sticker) and a vanity plate because I want to stick out a bit from the rest of the soccer moms, and some good gauges so I don't blow up my engine. If that's pimping, I am a world class ho.

How is dropping a 1.8t (or VR6 or whatever) into a beat up old Golf pimping it? It's no more pimping than putting a new engine in a Dodge Omni so you can drive it until it rusts out. Of course, then you recover the engine and find another shell to drop it in! Some people have no concept of resource conservation.
 

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I think the difference is perception..with the dub crowd - an engine swap is big pimpin', whereas 26" wheels on a SUV is pimpin'.

In the end, the goal is to make your car different and unique. Tasteless or tasteful, I think the article shows that modding is modding and it's really in the eye of the beholder what is a "good" or "bad" mod.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Wow! Great responses, I thought this thread would fall off the front page and be lost to history!

To me, I think that if you're cheap/can't budget the money, either go for looks or speed. If you have the money, you should make the car go faster AND make it look unique. I'm not into ricing/pimping big SUV's and Honda/Acuras, but a lot of people that I know (well, most car people around me) are into it. I respect them for what they like, but if they don't know what they're talking about ("Just swap an ITR engine in it!"....."Well what's that?"....."I dunno..." :crazy:) then they should go read their magazines/online stuff.
 

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Kiyoshi said:
Wow! Great responses, I thought this thread would fall off the front page and be lost to history!

To me, I think that if you're cheap/can't budget the money, either go for looks or speed. If you have the money, you should make the car go faster AND make it look unique. I'm not into ricing/pimping big SUV's and Honda/Acuras, but a lot of people that I know (well, most car people around me) are into it. I respect them for what they like, but if they don't know what they're talking about ("Just swap an ITR engine in it!"....."Well what's that?"....."I dunno..." :crazy:) then they should go read their magazines/online stuff.
Well..I must disagree with you there when you say "To me, I think that if you're cheap/can't budget the money, either go for looks or speed. If you have the money, you should make the car go faster AND make it look unique if you." If you want to go fast and mod (and not have anything showy), I think the sky is the limit. I'm sure you know a lot of ppl who race spend millions.

I would agree if you wanted a new OEM car though. Usually the rule of thumb is: performance, luxury, low price. Pick two.

I guess it depends on what you define as cheap. Budgets are all relative to what you can afford. I spent like $12k already building my Honda motor that's going into a CRX, which happens to looks like shiet (dings & dents everywhere, fading paint, peeling purple tint). Afterwards, i do hope to save for a $1700 welded cage job, throw on a $1500 worth of suspension parts, and another $300 in brake parts (already spent $600 on brakes). The car's budget should not end up not being cheap by my standards at least, but it will still be pretty unpresentable in terms of looks.

I do believe that if you want to go all-out performance, or all-out show somewhere along the line both approaches will conflict. For instance, you can't win much shows without ICE. But in all race classes, extra ballast weight is always a disatvange. Some classes would even require gutting the car. Show cars may require fancy bodykits. In racing, nonfunctional aerokits could probably be even aerodynamically disadvantageous (create excessive drag) or just extra weight. If it's stuff that's glued on, it could be a road hazard for other drivers if the junk falls off on the track. If you auto-X, you'll notice it's not very wise to have an aftermarket fiberglass or polyU front bumper. It will eventually get destryoed by the cones ( I know b/c this has actually happened to me with my Abt lip spoiler which was destroyed twice ). I could go on with more examples, but I think you know what I mean.

I don't know, I still beleive in do whatever makes you happy. I still think you should find the compomises that fit you best. Some ppl may even say that if you can't do something right, better not do it all. But then again, it's all relative in the end. If the teen who makes minimum wage and drives a decrepit beater around town, saves up just enough money to super-glue on a combat kit, but can't afford to paint it, then so what? At least he's happy with what he's got.

Compromises I think are what's the most tough thing. For me, the compromises are usually practicality vs. all-out-performance. On one hand, you want to build a car that's fast and fun to drive, especially on the track. On the other hand, a really racey hi-po car isn't going to comfortable on the street. If your motor runs 100-oct exclusively, it can be a pita locating a gas station that caters to you. It's just easier to build two cars. One for the track, and another for occasional fun driving/show/chick magnet that's babied, or possibly even a third as a beater. This is what I'm in the process of doing. CRX for race, Miata for fun car, and Civic hatch for beater. In the past, my Passat (RIP) took the role of all 3, and it was a real hassle.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
WOW You're thinking way too hard about what a stupid kid like me says at random :roll:

It's surprising your'e still around here so much even though you've got no more B5, I guess it's the whole "community" aspect of this place that keeps people tucked in here. Well.....I say we just leave it at the ClubB5 motto:

Another day. Another Mod

:thumbup:
 

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No, I think it's pretty good topic. Sorry I seemed to have gotten off topic though. There has been some previous discussion on the matter and I think it's fun to talk about diff modding approaches. It can also get pretty technical when your comparing tuning compromises (for instance it was fun deciding what parts to put in the honda motor i'm building; tune for top end power for road race and drag, or tune for more low/mid end power for autoX and street driving).

Agreed, the sense of community here is great! I still enjoy the anything auto forum a lot. It's more fun generally than what the Vortex, Honda-Tech, and Miata.net have to offer imo (the other car sites I check out). I won't go into another can of worms, but you'll find that not a lot of other forums offer the same experience as Clubb5. My parents also still own a B5 wagon, and an Audi A6 so it's still a helpful place for technical advice and classifileds deals.

Have fun!
 
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