[The Great Roberto]

I received my caliuper stiffening kit about 3 weeks ago and quickly fitted it.The new pedal feel was great, and no downsides.Just what you want from a mod.


But..........................

I had started to notice a "tinkling" sound when driving on uneven ground (with the window open).With it shut, it was more like a heavy mettalic knock.

In fact it sounded just like a failing ball joint.

Today I checked the calipers and noticed play in them. The sort of play that would be heard if you were driving on un-even ground.

I removed the pins and noticed score marks and noticed play in the bushes. So, I removed all 4 and replaced the old bushes and pins.

When I road tested the car, the sound was gone. Ok , so the pedal feel was not as good either.


So, if you are considering this mod beware.I'm sure there are many satisfied customers, but I re-think is required on this one !

The original rubber bushes do allow movement ( which gives rise to the pooer pedal feel), but this movement is not transmitted to the car as noise.

I guess I'm the only person who has suffered this ? However the only change I made to my car today removed a noise that only started post mod.

 

[jeffsu350]

scoring sounds like you didn't use the correct grease to lub up the pins


maybe call Tyrol sport and see what they see

 

[pete1]

I removed the pins and noticed score marks and noticed play in the bushes. So, I removed all 4 and replaced the old bushes and pins.

Can you post a pic?

 

[ms12339]

I also have a noise that sounds like a failing ball joint. I did not have the noise
before installing the stiffening kit. I will investigate next week!

Tom

 

[The Great Roberto]

I also have a noise that sounds like a failing ball joint. I did not have the noise
before installing the stiffening kit. I will investigate next week!

Tom

So, it may not just be me !

There is play in the caliper. When you grab it, you can feel it straight away.As we know any small amount of play at the front of these cars gets transmitted as a knocking noise. And trying to find that can be a nightmare.

The pins were scored, but there was also play in the bushes/caliper interface.All combined to give a knocking noise over uneven ground.
I have contacted TryolSport and sent some photos. They thoght it could be a lubrication issue as well.

However, given where these things live, most lubricants will be washed away quite quickly anyway ,if you drive a lot in the rain. There is no sealing arrangement to keep dirt out, and greese in.


As for greese, I used a copper based high temp called "copper-slip". It is mainly used on the threads of fastners to stop these seizing etc. I have used it for years with no problems. However, maybe these pins are more sensitive to lub, than I thought.

 

[TyrolSport]

Hey guys-

We are working with Robert on the issue, and the first step might be to provide him with a different lubricant. There will always be some play in the caliper, even with the bushings installed. Robert has been the first person of 100+ who have bought/installed the kit to report problems, and you can rest assured that we will be investigating the situation to make sure that everyone is 100% satisfied with our products.

-Mike P

 

[Chas]

Mike, I too have one bushing that seems to have some "play" between the bushing and the hole in the caliper that it fits into. All the othe bushings fit tightly into the hole vacated by the rubber bushing. Is that normal? I would think not.

The reason I bring this up is that I did experience some shaking coming from the front end/steering wheel while under modderate to heavy braking while at speeds of about 70mph. At slower speeds this never happens. I don't hear any noises coming from my calipers and as of late, the vibration has all together stopped. Now I haven't had a chance to really try them out again since the weather here is nothing but rain.

Any insight into this issue. I will be checking the bushings tomorrow. On your advice, I used the Perma-Tex Anti sieze compound (grey tube) as the lubricant. I used it quite heavily and only wipped off the little bit that might have gotten thrown onto the rotor somehow. Otherwise the pins were totally lubbed up with the Perma-Tex.

Like I said, it is only the one bushing that seems loose in the caliper hole. And that is on the driver's side. Is there anything I can do to fix it or am I SOL? I did try to swoop out different bushings into that hole, but they all fit the same in that particular hole. So the OD of the bushings is the same.

Other than that, the braking resopnse is great! i would just hate for it to worsen over time because of the play in that bushing to housing fit. :nervous: but still

 

[The Great Roberto]

Micheal from TyrolSport is to send me some different lub. to try.
I'm trying to keep an open mind on this and will wait for the lub . to arrive, and feed back.

Like Chas has said, I found that the bronze buhes were an easy fit in the caliper holes.Ideally these would be a light press/interferance fit. However, this may move the mod. out of the DIT areana, as you would need to remove the caliper and press in the bush.
Perhaps the bush could be glued into the caliper ?
This would then leave the one interface between the pin and bush.The lub. could then do its job.

As I said, I'll see what the lub does for me on arrival.

 

[Rusty]

All my bushings fit tightly into the caliper. From Chas' post, it looks as though our calipers don't have tight tolerances on the holes. Maybe the reason VW uses rubber bushings is to avoid having tight-tolerance holes in the caliper?

Anyway, good luck to everyone who has this problem. I am blessed with consistent holes and my bushings continue to kick *ss.

 

[jeffsu350]

my guess is that besides the fact that rubber bushings issolate the driver from the road more, like most street drivers want, VW can cut corners by not having tight tolerences and im sure the rubber stuff is cheaper to make than the tyrol sport stuff

 

[phantom GLI]

Okay I am just throwing out a Idea here the MIKE or some one else.

What about Poly urethane caliper bushings I know they would not be a good as the metal sleeves

But I am sure that they would be stiffer than the cheesy rubber thingys that are in the calipers now

Maybe you can call this a stage one upgrade and the metal sleeves could be a stage two

This would absorb vibration and It would definitely cost less than the metal springs.

Best of all I would be stiffer than the mushy crap that is in there now.

 

[phantom GLI]

What about using a waterproof lube?


Like the very messy but very good CV joint grease?

I am planning to get a set off these to go along with my 12.3 upgrade install but if it is going to make noise and vibration then I will try to get some of the rubber bushing that are installed in my mercedes the caliper is almost identical but the bushings are harder.

 

[Chas]

Well three of my bushings were a tight fit. I could still put them in by hand and one needed a slight tap with a hammer to seat all the way. But the one on the driver's side was a loose fit to say the least. The glueing or better yet, bonding of these bushinging into the caliper is a good idea and one that I might look into if the vibrations I am feeling in the steering wheel continue. I just don't like that one bit. It doesn't feel safe, though I know nothing bad will happen, I just don't like it.

 

[TyrolSport]

Guys-

It would really help if you emailed me with any issues as I can't frequent clubb5, vortex, audiworld, etc. as often as I would like

Email is [email protected]

The pins and bushings will have some play. This is completely normal, and is designed in to the system.

The bushings should be a snug fit into the caliper. If they are not, please contact me, and I will take the appropriate actions. It seems as if VW's casting of the calipers is not that accurate on a small number of cars.

As far as poly/delrin vs. the brass we chose.....we did some testing initally and the harder rubber/plastic compounds did not generate the feel that the metal did. I did not feel comfortable selling a product from which most people would not see/feel results.

Let's keep the discussion going

 

[Rusty]

Cool, thanks Mike!

 

[Chas]

Thanks Mike! I'll email you with my results. The pins fit nicely in the bushings. It's justy one of the holes in my caliper seems to be bigger than the other. :roll: Thanks VW! Or should I say, Varies Widely... :roll: :roll:

 

[VWPassatGLX155]

I just ordered these, as I am experiencing the exact same problem Rusty was experiencing under normal driving. My pad is dragging which is creating an extremely annoying noise once the brakes get warm. I hope that these bushings will fix that, though I also hope that it will not compromise safety, and simply make a different noise for me to deal with. My guess would be that on a select few Passats, the calipers were not cast accurately, therefore the sizes of the holes vary slightly. I can only hope that my car was not one of the cars with the different sized holes :roll:.

 

[hirschaj]

Does anyone have updates on this product? Anyone that had brake noise, is the noise gone after you installed this? I am thinking about getting this product but have not made up my mind yet. TIA

 

[The Great Roberto]

I wasn't looking to solve a brake noise issue;just looking for better pedal feel.

However what I did get was a noise too similar to a duff ball joint(s).
Any play in the front suspension and brakes appears to lead to noise being transmitted into the cabin/ being felt by the driver.

The key to the sucess if this mod is having bushes that require a light press into the caliper.Mine had play from the start. This is not a problem with the bushes, as I'm sure these are made to tight tols. and consistantly made so (CNC'd ?)
The problem is that by calipers had a couple of holes that were oversize.Not a problem with rubber bushes.That is why VW uses the rubber.It allows for quite a large tol. on the machining of these holes.

However , because the bushes could rotate in the caliper and also relative to the pin, it lightly scored my pins. Hopefully teh new lube will stop any further scoring.I may need to use screw lock to stop my bushes from rotating in the calipers.

The TyrolSport mod is a compromise.Ideally teh way to do it would be to send off your calpiers to Mike and his team, they would press in teh bronze bushes and send you the caliper back with the pins.However teh cost and mainly inconvinence would mean that they would sell a lot less kits !
For 98% of VW calipers these bushes provide a light interference fit with the caliper holes.No problem. However for the other 2% there is play, so some method of taking up that play is needed. Foe me, that will require screw lock/adhesive of some sort !!

 

[TyrolSport]

If anyone is having an issue with the bushings being too small to fit properly in the cast caliper holes, please email us with the dimensions of the caliper hole, and we will make a larger bushing(s) to fit I think we have about 2 reports of this so far in 90+ kits sold......