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Discussion Starter #1
Enough time has passed that I think we can start asking a few questions. Such as, why, after 16 days, are the numerous U.N. agencies supposedly established to deal with precisely this type of event, still not prepared to act in this disaster?

This has the making of a real Charlie Foxtrot. Many people had no problem criticizing our President for a "slow" response 3 days after the event. However, we've definitely stepped up to the plate while the U.N. mostly remains MIA. Where are those critics? It is no wonder affected countries want to deal with the U.S. and not the U.N. At a minimum, the U.N. owes the world an apology...but we've discussed their usefulness (or lack there of) a number of other times so I won't use this entire post to do it again, besides they're hardly worth the effort.

More interesting, however, are the actions of Indonesia.
See:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,144109,00.html
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/050112/1/3psy7.html

What are their true motivations here? Why the restriction for journalists and aid workers?

Of course, there are all the other stories too: widespread child abduction/orphan selling, separatists obstructing aid, etc...

It all makes a sad story even sadder.

Thoughts?
 

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This had truely been a shocking and sad tragedy. I wish we can do something to help.

As far as Indonesia not accepting aid, it has been discussed that some other countries has done the same in past disasters because they do not want to owe the other countries anything. Many believe that if a country accepts aid, they will pay for it in some way in the future. Nothing is free in this world. Some people I talked to had said the USA and certain countries would want some type of favor or influence on the country.

Overall, just too many tragic events lately. But we can't control natural disasters. What about wars?
 

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JamesBondage said:
My question is where are all of the Al Queda rescue helicopters, MASH units, food, and clean water?
Reminds me about the picture of an Indonesian watching a US aid crew helping somebody out. All the while wearing an OBL T-shirt. :crazy:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
B5MegaSpeed said:
As far as Indonesia not accepting aid, it has been discussed that some other countries has done the same in past disasters because they do not want to owe the other countries anything. Many believe that if a country accepts aid, they will pay for it in some way in the future. Nothing is free in this world. Some people I talked to had said the USA and certain countries would want some type of favor or influence on the country.
A far more likely possiblity is that maybe their actions have to with corruption by Indonesian government and military officials. There is a lot of relief money out there with many different organizations, all with varying levels of control. There is no reasonable explanation for the restrictions placed on international journalists and relief workers. However, if we wanted to assume for a minute that your scenario is true, what does that say about their governments when they'd turn away aid that will result in many thousands of more lives lost due to their own unwillingness to let someone help?
 

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Urlik said:
Reminds me about the picture of an Indonesian watching a US aid crew helping somebody out. All the while wearing an OBL T-shirt. :crazy:
I saw that on TV...one of the most despicable things I've ever seen
 

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JamesBondage said:
My question is where are all of the Al Queda rescue helicopters, MASH units, food, and clean water?
Don't worry when we are kicked out, Al Queda will say we abandoned them in their time of need. Ain't the Earth great?
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Interesting article from an officer on the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln:
No Relief in Sight for the Lincoln

As I went through the breakfast line, I overheard one of the U.N. strap-hangers, a longhaired guy with a beard, make a sarcastic comment to one of our food servers. He said something along the lines of “Nice china, really makes me feel special,” in reference to the fact that we were eating off of paper plates that day. It was all I could do to keep from jerking him off his feet and choking him, because I knew that the reason we were eating off paper plates was to save dishwashing water so that we would have more water to send ashore and save lives. That plus the fact that he had no business being there in the first place.



My attitude towards these unwanted no-loads grew steadily worse that day as I learned more from one of our junior officers who was assigned to escort a group of them. It turns out that they had come to Indonesia to “assess the damage” from the Dec. 26 tsunami.



Well, they could have turned on any TV in the world and seen that the damage was total devastation. When they got to Sumatra with no plan, no logistics support and no five-star hotels to stay in, they threw themselves on the mercy of the U.S. Navy, which, unfortunately, took them in. I guess our senior brass was hoping for some good PR since this was about the time that the U.N. was calling the United States “stingy” with our relief donations.
Also:
When our wardroom treasurer approached the leader of the relief group and asked him who was paying the mess bill for all the meals they ate, the fellow replied, “We aren’t paying, you can try to bill the U.N. if you want to.”
For those that don't know, Navy enlisted personnel eat for free while officers, on the other hand, have to pay for their food. It was explained to me this way: There is an organization, called the “wardroom mess”, in which every officer on board pays monthly dues. This money is used to buy food (usually from the enlisted mess but they can also spend extra to buy special meals and condiments), as well as various gifts and plaques for departing officers and visiting VIPs. Everybody who eats in the wardroom has to pay, including the VIPs! The cost supposedly isn’t very much – only about $2 a meal. But if you were to take several visitors over a period of a few weeks, it could add up. So what happens when they can't collect on a bill? The rest of the officers have to pony up to make up the difference – and I'd imagine that can make for a very unhappy wardrooom.
 

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JamesBondage said:
No one commented on my little animation. I spent 20 minutes making it in easytoon.

Well, as long as I think it's funny, it was worth it...
Read the HOT97 thread. :thumbdown
 

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JamesBondage said:
Wow you really are a gruesome human being... I guess if a Muslim made a cartoon of Christian capitalist pigs dying in the WTC you would laugh right? Funny how you are passing judgement on 180,000 human beings because some of them may have been terrorists. Even the Americans and Europeans who died.. . Bravo.. ass
 

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Spirare said:
Wow you really are a gruesome human being... I guess if a Muslim made a cartoon of Christian capitalist pigs dying in the WTC you would laugh right? Funny how you are passing judgement on 180,000 human beings because some of them may have been terrorists. Even the Americans and Europeans who died.. . Bravo.. ass
I would have never made that cartoon if the Indonesians didn't bite the hand that tried to feed them -- literally.

Besides, meeting Allah is a beautiful part of their rich "culture", especially when they take innocent lives with them. Who are you to judge them and their culture? Ass.
 

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Trash the citizens over the actions of their government? :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
 

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JamesBondage said:
I would have never made that cartoon if the Indonesians didn't bite the hand that tried to feed them -- literally.

Besides, meeting Allah is a beautiful part of their rich "culture", especially when they take innocent lives with them. Who are you to judge them and their culture? Ass.
WTF, are you kidding me?
Over 200,000 people dead, and that's what you've got to say?

I call on J-RAD and Urlik to repudiate that statement.
That's way out of line.

I have an old friend (a programmer) that moved back to Indonesia a few years ago. She's Muslim and the sweetest person you could hope to know. Anyway, I emailed to check on her a couple weeks ago. She said she lost several family members in the Bande Aceh area. She wrote that she was thankful to the US and the world for contributing assistance.
-- But she reminded me that Indonesians are also giving everything they can, even though they're poor.

I think such a widespread disaster like this is unprecedented in modern times, so obviously the response is not going to be perfect.

It's great to see Bush Sr. and Clinton do that ad together though....
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Der Meister said:
I call on J-RAD and Urlik to repudiate that statement.
That's way out of line...
I think Urlik already has.

Why would you call on me (or Urlik) to repudiate this? JamesBondage is no different than anyone else here and speaks for himself. He doesn't represent me, nor do I represent him. That said, I don't agree with or endorse his statement but if that's his belief, than that's his belief.
 
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