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Discussion Starter #1
Well, here's part one of my tip vs 5 speed driveline loss series. Part 2 will be after the 5 speed swap.

The runs were done at about 19 PSI on the stock SMIC (which by runs 4 and 7 was completely heat soaked). So with a proper FMIC and another 2-3 PSI I imagine that there is some more power to be had. However the results are what they are. What impressed me most was the area under the torque curve. Boost onset is really linear and the useful portion of the torque curve spans all the way from 3000-6500.

*No additional tuning or boost was added for the The M5 + 94 oct run. I just pretty much put it in and let 'er rip*


Run 4 on 94 oct was 225.7 WHP 225.2 ft/lb


Run 7 on M5 + 94 oct was 232.7 WHP 231.8 ft/lb
 

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soooooooooooooo you made the same torque as a normal K04 and only 16 WHP than a normal K04 when you ran the M5+94oct :rofl:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
soooooooooooooo you made the same torque as a normal K04 and only 16 WHP than a normal K04 when you ran the M5+94oct :rofl:
Hey, at least mine runs ;) But seriously though, I'm not too disappointed with those results. Bear in mind that those were done at 19 PSI on a stock intercooler after 4 and 7 pulls and an Upsolute tune (which really isn't the greatest).

Toss on a decent FMIC, Eurodyne or Uni tune and up the boost to a solid 21 PSI and you'd be seeing about 240-250 WHP on pump gas. Apply a 20% driveline loss to that and it would put you at about 290-300 CHP.

Now that said, my results were what they were. So dealing in 'what if's' wont change them. That, and it's going to be a moot point when I get the 5 speed in anyway.

However for anyone who is thinking of doing a BT setup on a tip, I don't think it's out of the question to be able to reasonably expect 250 WHP on a proper setup.

As for the viability of some one else doing a BT setup on a tip, I wouldn't say it's a waste. If you look at the torque curve, it's pretty broad vis a vis a K04. Having had both, I can say that this setup is substantially faster than my K04-015. Yes, the K04 may have actually made more peak torque. However it only did so for about 500-1000 RPM and then died off after 4500 RPM.
 

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can you say something quickly about the cost of doing a bt on a tip? Is the only added cost the upgraded torque converter? Which if you can't remove/install it your self can add about $???? to the project. thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hmm, I don't know that the TC adds a whole lot more cost vis a vis upgrading the clutch and flywheel on a manual car. An ECS single mass S4 conversion is $600 whereas the IPT TC is $700. Add to the fact that you need to drop the trans to change both the clutch and TC and you're really only looking at $100 difference.

The only real downside to the BT tip setups are that you'll ultimately make less power than a 5 speed. There really isn't any way around that.

PS: The one thing that I'll say about the IPT TC is that it has a hell of a lot of holding power. Most of these runs were made in 4th gear and it held. If that had been a stock TC, I'd have probably burnt the clutches to a crisp.
 

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Hey, at least mine runs ;)

Toss on a decent FMIC, Eurodyne or Uni tune and up the boost to a solid 21 PSI and you'd be seeing about 240-250 WHP on pump gas. Apply a 20% driveline loss to that and it would put you at about 290-300 CHP.
intercooler wont add any horsepower from you first run, all it does is maintain horsepower and dont you have a Uni tune already? but i guess if you wanna be petty about my car not running but im not the one blowing turbos every few months and blaming everyone else for it
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Dude, what's up your craw today?

One: Did you not notice the little winky face at the end of that sentence about your car? I'm not the one dumping on your post with stuff like this:
soooooooooooooo you made the same torque as a normal K04 and only 16 WHP than a normal K04 when you ran the M5+94oct :rofl:

Two: Where in any of my posts have I blamed anyone for the demise of my turbos? In the case of the K04-015 I was pissed off at Clay and Shawn because despite loads of evidence to the contrary, they misdiagnosed the cause of the damage. This resulted in me wasting a whole lot of time chasing down potential causes of FOD that didn't exist. In the case of the G-popshop one that died, I said straight out that it wasn't Gerry's fault. If anything, I took great care not to blame him because I felt that he did the best job that he could, given what he had to work with.

Three: No, I don't have a Uni tune. Never have and probably never will since I plan on going with Eurodyne when I'm done the 5 speed swap.

Four: A FMIC will add power in my case because it's very possible that the stock SMIC is bottlenecking the airflow to the engine. Read this post http://www.passatworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=310551 Even if it's not and the wastegate is the issue, a FMIC will make a substantial difference to the results once you've done more than 3 pulls and the SMIC is completely heatsoaked.

I'll be honest, I was a little irked at your first post, however I was willing to let it go. However, where you get the nerve to start coming back at me for a friendly wink wink, nudge nudge is beyond me. I'm hoping your just having a bad day, because this kind of behavior really isn't like you.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yeah, I had a chronic misfire on my #3 cylinder that ended up dumping fuel into what was a really tight housing and lunched the turbine. So I ended up buying Nstabl's old GTRS elim.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks, as for the A/F ratios I realized a little known fact (at least to me). When you dyno they use a tailpipe sniffer. This means that you're getting exhaust that has already been passed through the cat. So unless you have a testpipe you'll generally read about a point leaner than you really are.
 

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Yes that does make sense but I do not think it'll make a whole point difference.

Plus you're only down under 12:1 for like 500rpm and very dangerously lean at the redline.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Believe me it does drop it that much. I have my own innovate wideband installed between the cat and the turbo. It was reading about 11.5-12 during the runs. If anything, my car runs rich most of the time (low 11's).
 

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Discussion Starter #17
No problem, appreciate the concern. More than anything I wanted to leave this little tidbit in because it probably explains why so many dyno graphs look so lean.
 

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numbers do look low but it is a small eliminator on a chicktronic.. should be a bit better on a manual trans.

on the FMIC note, it will not ADD hp. FMIC will prevent hp loss due to heat soak.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I realize that in most cases a FMIC will not add power per-se. However if my SMIC is actually choking the turbo off to 20 PSI (which it may be) then opening that up will let me boost higher. Otherwise I need to change my wastegate actuator to a higher pressure one.
 

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you will still be boosting the same amount of pressure the only difference is that again, you will not heat soak the intercooler therefore getting a substantial gain on HOLDING HP.

you really should consider meth injection or an intercooler sprayer.
 
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