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Timing belt decisions, questions, and concerns...

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H

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I'm about to hit 120k and decided I might as well change the TB since my thermostat is seized open (and its very cold outside...:banghead:)

I'm having a hard time deciding where to get my kit from, I think I've narrowed it down it down to 3 or 4 different places:

Choice # 1:
http://www.blauparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=GH21112-1C

Choice # 2:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Passat_B5-FWD-V6_30v/Maintenance/Engine/Timing_Belt_Kits/ES7443/

Choice # 3 :
http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Passat/Engine/290/5

Choice # 4:
http://www.fcpgroton.com/product-ex...mp_Timing_Belt_Kit_2000_2005_/category_id/201

Any thoughts? Has anyone dealt with each of these sellers before? The main reason I'm leaning towards Blauparts is because it seems the most comprehensive and you have the option for a tool rental. How necessary are the suggested tools? I'm assuming they are mandatory... but you know what you do when you assume.

Another thing, if I were to go with the Blauparts kit, is there anything I should or COULD be replacing while I have everything taken apart? Sensors, Mounts, Gaskets, etc etc. I figure I might as well breathe new life into my car while I have the chance to easily do so.

Thank you for your advice, knowledge and opinions.
 
H

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
G

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#5 ·
If this is your first, then get/rent the tools. Yes they are necessary for us normal DIYer's. ECS and Blau have them for rent or included in the kit. GAP is also a good supplier. FCP can be good, but be particular, especially on the Timing belt parts. I went with the Blau Ultimate kit for my V6. I own the tools as I am on TB#3 with 215k miles. Make sure you have a good gear puller, plenty of metric sockets and Torx bits.

Change the snub mount while you are there.

Allow a full weekend for the change, all day the first day for dis-assembly and parts change, then all day the second day for reassembly. It will take less time the second time. Be extremely methodical, to the point of being anal. Organization will allow you to put all the bolt 'n bits back in their proper places. If you think you may not remember something, take a digital picture of the area to make sure everything is back in place.

Above all, if you get into trouble, come back here and ask. People will help.

Follow this link:
http://phatcat_ed.tripod.com/V6.htm

Just my $0.02
 
H

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
GSO_Passater said:
If this is your first, then get/rent the tools. Yes they are necessary for us normal DIYer's. ECS and Blau have them for rent or included in the kit. GAP is also a good supplier. FCP can be good, but be particular, especially on the Timing belt parts. I went with the Blau Ultimate kit for my V6. I own the tools as I am on TB#3 with 215k miles. Make sure you have a good gear puller, plenty of metric sockets and Torx bits.

Change the snub mount while you are there.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your insight. I think the tools will be a big factor in which way I go.

As mentioned before is there anything else I should be changing during this time? Any potentially hard to get at areas? Specifically things not included in the Blauparts kit? I know you mentioned the Snub Mount, anything else? (It seems like a front motor mount is included, but unsure if it is the heavy-duty version.

Thanks again.
 
G

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#8 ·
The front motor mount is the snub mount. Nearly everything is included in the Blau kit that I used. While you are in there, it is easier to change the serpentine tensioner (at least the roller), as it needs to be removed anyway.

Patience and organization are the most important. People have used zip-lock bags with a Sharpie to label where things were. It takes more time, but then there are no left-overs.
 
I

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#9 ·
A buddy of mine is really ambitious and bought a passat v6 non runner for 1k with very little help took the whole front end apart. Then got the heads off to find all the valves bent. With my help put all new valves in put it all back together with a new w/p. When it came to the belt NO tool he used a 3' long bar to make sure the cams were straight across the marks. It worked like a charm and he was reluctant to spend 50$ on a cam bar. I here to say it can be done but you need to be ambitious. Turn over by hand slowly to make sure all is right. Good luck
 
NEWMAN'SOWN

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#10 ·
120k on the original timing belt/waterpump?!? This just further cements my opinion about the solidity of our cars even when you take into consideration some of the people that have had issues. Harbringero, your are on borrowed time buddy! The timing belt etc. were supposed to be changed at 80-85k miles if you go according to the knowledge on here, and 105k if you go by VW's more lenient standards. You do not want to know what happens if that timingbelt were to snap or that waterpump loses its impeller...

CHANGE THE DAMN THING ASAP! :p :lol:
 
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#11 ·
indoubtnailit said:
A buddy of mine is really ambitious and bought a passat v6 non runner for 1k with very little help took the whole front end apart. Then got the heads off to find all the valves bent. With my help put all new valves in put it all back together with a new w/p. When it came to the belt NO tool he used a 3' long bar to make sure the cams were straight across the marks. It worked like a charm and he was reluctant to spend 50$ on a cam bar. I here to say it can be done but you need to be ambitious. Turn over by hand slowly to make sure all is right. Good luck
Click to expand...
Everyone has the stories that: "a buddy of mine named MacGyver fashioned a... and it worked like a charm". That said, you do not want to be in the middle of your timing belt change and not be able to get things back together properly. Or, having reassembled the car find that it is not running right, need to diagnose things, then have lingering questions whether the timing belt was in fact properly installed and have to tear everything back apart.

By purchasing the parts and DIY, you are having a cost avoidance of at least $350. Spend $35 of that on the tool rental for the peace of mind.
 
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#13 ·
I'm slap bang in the middle of changing my TB on my 30V V6 ATQ and things are going well so far, i elected to get the Blauparts enhanced kit, i am changing all idlers and tensioners, seals etc while i am there, i rented the tool kit and boy does that make life easier, full 100% thumbs up on taking this route.

So far i have removed the old belt, changed the crank seal, installed all the new idlers and hydraulic damper etc and it's taken about 4 hours which i think is pretty reasonable.

Go for it and get it done, i'm only at 66K and was getting paranoid about the thing breaking and i did find the belt has stretched a little so happy i'm doing it now.

Watch out for that crank bolt, that sucker is TIGHT
 
H

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Pfft... 120k isn't THAT high... *shifty eyes*

If it wasn't for the damned thermostat I would probably just ignore it! :lol:

All joking aside, I do appreciate all the advice and insight you have all provided. I'm still currently waiting to hear back from kingofNYC because that might be a better deal... pending if I can find some tools to use.

03Pass, were the idlers you're refering to included in the enhanced kit? If not, what would I need to get?
 
H

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
NEWMAN'SOWN said:
I wouldn't drive the car if I were you. If that belt breaks, your engine will be totaled.
Click to expand...
By 'totaled' don't you just mean that the rods would bend? On the one hand that WOULD make your engine inoperable... but on the other hand, aren't rods supposed to bend in a situation like this (that's why rods are hollow right?)

I'm not a professional mechanic and won't claim to be, especially with VW engines, but that's what I've always gathered, at least on older engines.
 
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#19 ·
The rods are not supposed designed to bend at all,once the belt breaks the valves will tend to punch holes in the tops of the pistons and the pistons will return the favor by bending the valves.

Engine pretty much totalled.

You can repair an engine after this has occured BUT it will set you back at least $3K IF you do the work of dis-assembly / re-assembly yourself.

Timing belt seems very cheap by comparison
 
NEWMAN'SOWN

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#20 ·
HarbringeroLove said:
By 'totaled' don't you just mean that the rods would bend? On the one hand that WOULD make your engine inoperable... but on the other hand, aren't rods supposed to bend in a situation like this (that's why rods are hollow right?)

I'm not a professional mechanic and won't claim to be, especially with VW engines, but that's what I've always gathered, at least on older engines.
Click to expand...
No, the 1.8t is an interference engine. when the timing belt breaks/seizes it has the valves collide inside of the engine. The severity of what happens to the engine depends on what speed the car is traveling, what rpm the engine is revolving at (RPM), and a bit of luck/lack thereof. Worst case scenario would be a case where you are in fourth gear, high speed (85+ mph) at 5k+ RPM. Best case scenario you are idling in your driveway in neutral. Either way, you are looking at at least 2-3k in damages in most cases if you hire someone to do it for you. Definetly not a good thing to have happen to you.
 
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