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Grinding Gears...gone fishing!
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Discussion Starter #1
Being a NY'er who lost friends here and not seeing the towers from anywhere on the island I live on right across the water from them..this pisses me off!
What happened to "Never Forget"?


Ship built from Twin Towers steel to miss observance of 10th 9/11 anniversary


STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. -- The warship linked to 9/11 lore will not be part of the 10th-anniversary commemoration ceremonies in September of the 2001 terrorist attacks on New York and the nation.
The USS New York, forged of steel from the fallen Twin Towers, will not be in New York Harbor on Sept. 11, as some here had hoped.
"The Navy made a big deal of it when it was originally commissioned," said Dennis McKeon of the 9/11-inspired organization Where-To-Turn. "They linked it to 9/11. Why wouldn't they want to have it here, on that day, so people could visit it?"
"It's going to be a tough day for a lot of us," said Donald Ruland, Staten Island trustee of the FDNY Uniformed Firefighters Association. "Anything relative to 9/11, we would love to see it here then."
But a spokeswoman for the Bloomberg administration, Evelyn Erskine, said the ship is "not planing to be docked in New York at that time."
Homeported in Norfolk, Va., the USS New York was built with 7.5 tons of steel from the World Trade Center in its bow.
It was commissioned at the site of the Intrepid Museum on Manhattan's West Side on Nov. 7, 2009. Five days earlier, the ship stopped across from the World Trade Center site, dipped its flag and delivered a 21-gun salute. Members of the FDNY, NYPD and Port Authority Police, along with 9/11 families and veterans, stood on the shore and returned the salute.
Islanders who visited the ship at that time told the Advance that the crew was proud of its attachment to New York City.
Sept. 11 widow Madeline Bergin said she heard from members of the ship's crew a few days ago that they would not be in New York as they'd anticipated.
She said she was "horrified."
"They have to be here for the 10th anniversary," said Ms. Bergin. "It's an outrage. That ship is a floating memorial. We all assumed that since the ship was made out of 9/11 steel that it would be here on 9/11."
Grasmere artist Scott LoBaido, who is on a 50-state flag-painting tour, called the omission "pretty disgusting."
"That ship is built from the wreckage of 9/11," said LoBaido, who plans to be back in New York City by Sept. 11. "That ship is 9/11. It is heart-wrenching that it is being overlooked."
"It would be great to see it," said Charles Renda of New Springville, whose wife, Karen, worked in Tower 1 and perished in the attack. "I would love to have it here. I'm a very sentimental, patriotic person. Any kind of a salute is great."
"It would certainly mean a lot to our firefighters," added Ruland. "Firefighters have always shared a common bond with the armed services. We are both in dangerous professions and we sacrifice our lives. I question why it won't be here."
U.S. Naval offices in New York and Norfolk did not respond to several queries regarding the USS New York's status on Sept. 11.
"I don't know if there is some kind of logistical problem," said McKeon.
"I would have to think this is an oversight," said Gus Martine, secretary of the Greenridge Elks Lodge, which feted sailors from the USS New York in 2009 at a dinner in the lodge. "But it is a naval vessel. It has to go where the Navy sends it."


 

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My intake has Emphysema
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Playing devil's advocate here Scott, without an answer from the DoN, I cannot judge. Operational commitments may have it reserved for other operations. With the military, I hate to say it, that has priority. Just like me missing the funeral of my grandfather, I had operational commitments that couldn't be put off.
So, until folks have an answer from the Navy or DoD, unbunch yer panties.

Sorry.
 

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"Horrified" ?

Meh, this is pretty trivial in the big scheme of things.

7.5 tons of steel.....of a 25,000 tons ship.
 

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the ship doesn't weigh 25,000 tons. it displaces 25,000 tons of water. big difference.

back on topic; the needs of the Navy will outweigh the desire to have this ship at the observance. sad, from an emotional perspective, but required, from a national security perspective.
 

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Lefties have rights, too!
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but required, from a national security perspective.
That, I truly doubt. We are in big trouble if a ship this tiny will determine if we are safe or not. National Security is just a buzz word for "somebody screwed up".

However, if it did show up then people are going to expect it to be in NYC every year on 9/11 and get even more upset when it doesn't show again. Remember, it's a military vessel and not a parade float.
 

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it is one piece of the puzzle, Tom, that helps perform national security objectives. you know what I do for a living; or did you forget? it's an amphib (an LPD-21 class); it hosts USMC personnel, it can host airships and fast patrol boats (LCACs and LCUs, as well as AAVs); host helos and Ospreys; and, a host of other kinds of activities associated with power projection and national security. there are only 8 or so of these in the Navy, so I'd guess there are 4 on each coast. that would put 2 per coast at sea for any given period of time, and every other year or so, they'd go on an overseas deployment. these ships are critical for being able to establish a beachhead, as well as working in close to shore due to the aforementioned equipment they carry. they go to sea as part of an Expeditionary Strike Group (ESG). last but not least, if a ship is part of an overseas deployment, they aren't going to bring it back to break up the ESG just so it can participate in something like a 9/11 remembrance.

done playing devil's advocate yet?
 

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the needs of the Navy will outweigh the desire to have this ship at the observance. sad, from an emotional perspective, but required, from a national security perspective.
Jay I fully agree with you on that. Kind of on/off topic my wife is going to a Yeoman conference for the USCG in September to Kansas. Of course her Captain reminded her the date she was flying out, and asked if she really wanted to go. And yes that very day. :(
 

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A ship built from used steel has no bearing on how you spend the day. You only need yourself, your memories and friends/family.
 

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A ship built from used steel has no bearing on how you spend the day. You only need yourself, your memories and friends/family.
I don't disagree but symbolism is VERY important to some people.
 

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the ship doesn't weigh 25,000 tons. it displaces 25,000 tons of water. big difference.
Actually Jay, for a vessel floating on the surface, displacement = weight (Archimedes principle). A submerging submarine is one particular case where displacement does not equal weight.

But regarding scheduling of this particular vessel at an event, it probably doesn't rate very high on the "need" list of the Navy. I deal with reviewing the scheduling of certain vessels on a weekly basis and the requirements to have vessel A in location B at time C because of issue D are extremely complicated and thought out long into the future.
 

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the ship doesn't weigh 25,000 tons. it displaces 25,000 tons of water. big difference.

back on topic; the needs of the Navy will outweigh the desire to have this ship at the observance. sad, from an emotional perspective, but required, from a national security perspective.
Actually Jay, for a vessel floating on the surface, displacement = weight (Archimedes principle). A submerging submarine is one particular case where displacement does not equal weight.

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Ah shit...I missed Jays "correction".

Jay, doesnt a ship displace the same amount of water as the weight of the ship?

So....this particular ship has a displacement of 25k tons. How much does it weigh? 25k tons. (though I will concede that the 25k is fully loaded....)
 

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but how much symbolism does one need? I think it starts to get a little out of hand, and superficial.
I don't disagree with you but people have individual preferences. Symbols like roadside crosses/flowers make no sense to me but they're very important to others.
 

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Grinding Gears...gone fishing!
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Discussion Starter #14
Act of war against the USA, thousands dead.Changed our way of life forever..no big deal. Oh well. Guess we should get rid of Pearl Harbor also.Guess I was wrong.carry on
 

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Act of war against the USA, thousands dead.Changed our way of life forever..no big deal. Oh well. Guess we should get rid of Pearl Harbor also.Guess I was wrong.carry on
C'mon Scott, kinda hard to move Pearl, huh? (or the Arizona, for that matter). You don't see people wanting it raised or family remains dug out of it just because it symbolizes something to someone do you?
Hell, you don't see me asking for a piece of the Pentagon.
 

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Grinding Gears...gone fishing!
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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I guess it was seeing the planes hit them, the buildings on fire from across the water and then the collapse and then the friends lost that makes it different for me than how you all see it.
I am no way comparing it to going to Iraq or anything like that, so don't get it twisted. It is just nice for it to come by like it did for the 4th of July(it made it here for fleet week, but not for this). Everyone in NY was thrilled to see it and pass the place it came from.
I think if you were a NY'er you'd think different.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33582397/ns/us_news-military/t/-gun-salute-ship-built-steel/





the view below is from where I live.



 

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I guess it was seeing the planes hit them, the buildings on fire from across the water and then the collapse and then the friends lost that makes it different for me than how you all see it.
I am no way comparing it to going to Iraq or anything like that, so don't get it twisted. It is just nice for it to come by like it did for the 4th of July. Everyone in NY was thrilled to see it and pass the place it came from.
I think if you were a NY'er you'd think different.
oh, enough with that. This is what irks me....that people like you make it seem like its "different" for you, since you are from the city. That unless you were "there"....(across the river, like you), that one cant think correctly about it or be a good enough judge about it all.

Well, I was less than a mile from the Pentagon when all hell broke loose (and was scrambled over there within minutes), and knew a good deal of people that were in the Pentagon during that time (though no one that died, thank goodness). Ive been to Ground Zero too many times to count.

Your emotions are blinding practicality.... this was the case with you in the mosque debate as well. You came off very condescending in that thread

You can have your opinion- though I disagree with it. I actually find it insulting....and actually, youre taking away from the meaning/symbolism behind it by being all pissed off because its not going to be there. Does it some how take away from its meaning if its off supporting the war on terror, or supporting our country? Our military is symbolic in itself.....it doesnt have to be sitting on the river in NYC for it to hold its meaning.

Either way....an opinion is an opinion. We can agree to disagree.

See you next month at Ground Zero...Ill be there for 6 days for news coverage. :)
 

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Grinding Gears...gone fishing!
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Discussion Starter #19
See you next month at Ground Zero...Ill be there for 6 days for news coverage.
guess you don't know about what they are doing with allowing people there.
I'd post it on here but Id be wrong to do it.

and you may have missed this
so don't get it twisted
you twisted it.
 

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Your emotions are blinding practicality
Scott, I'm sorry, but I have to agree with this.
I was close enough to the Pentagon to feel the heat and shockwave from the blast and I had family inside with no clue as to if their office had moved back to that wing yet or not. I was also part of the volunteer platoon to comb the rubble....not a pleasant site nor smell. Lastly, my office was part of the relief center in Crystal City for the families and shuttled some to and from National.
So, I am in no way belittling your feelings about this, but it's just not practical to bring a US Naval warship BACK for a ceremony. Hell, you know yourself how much it costs just to fuel a fishing boat....consider the cost (especially now) to get this one back to NY....and people have no right whatsoever to be pissed at the Navy for this either.
 
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