Volkswagen Passat Forum banner

Suicide as a choice

  • Well, it depends on circumstances

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2
1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,946 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Let me know what is your personal belief on suicide. Somebody decides that life is not worth living. There may be many reasons, terminal illness, mental illness, bad luck in life, etc. Would you support the choice, would you be totally opposed to it, or maybe you would agree in certain circumstances. Think it through before you answer. I don't want from the hip answers as this is quite infammatory issue. Let it ferment little bit, look at your own life, lives of people around you, and then answer. So let me have it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,331 Posts
If you ask me what I believe, as it relates to me myself -- I say its my choice. If i want to put a bullet in my head tomorrow, that's my business.

I am however, responsible for the repercussions of that action and honestly I don't think i could ever do it because of the hurt it would inflict on my family -- no matter how f-ed up I felt, that's just me -- when I kill myself, I've created more suffering than I removed.

In most cases, people that commit suicide don't realize the ripple effect of what they are doing. All they see is themselves, and are oblivious to how much pain they are causing others by what they are doing. Very selfish I think.

Now... as it relates to other people: Ultimately, its up to them. I would never advise someone to take their own life, but I would understand if the circumstances were bad such as you said, one with a terminal illness and suffering daily. In that case, they would (at their own discretion of course) probably take away some of the suffering of their loved ones by taking their own life.

I have no religious conviction that prohibits suicide, I just feel angry when someone might think that is their only option and not see the pain they are inflicting on others when they go.

Of course, if an unknown person in the woods commits suicide is he really dead? Did the gun make a sound? Things to ponder....

BTW... anyone read "Welcome to the Monkey House" by Kurt Vonnegut? ahhh, good stuff. Not trying to hijack, but in the book the world is severely over populated -- people are encouraged to kill themselves in "suicide parlors" that look like Howard Johnson hotels... great story. ok, i'm done. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,469 Posts
Whether we believe it's right or wrong, it will always come down to personal choice. There are going to be those special cases where a person kills themself for a strong belief (kamikazies, setting oneself on fire in protest, etc.) but 99% of the cases are going to be for selfish reasons.

BTW, that "Welcome to the Monkey House" idea would be great for Los Angeles :beer:
 
2

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
I Belive Life Is Precious Its The Ultimate Gift Not To Be Taken Lightly, I Believe You Owe It To The One's Who Gave It To You To See It To Its Full Potential.

Life Is For Living Sounds Corny, Yes But With So Many Different Factors Trying To Take It From You, To Me Suicide Is The Ultimate Form Of Weakness. I Personally Feel That There Is No Justification For Killing You Self Aside From Terminal Disease.

I've Been Through Things In My Life, Low Points In My Life Where I Thought All Was Lost Where I Felt All Alone With Nothing To Turn To, Self Preservation Never Left Me. To Feel That There Is No Alternative But Ending Your Life Is Ridiculous, Pain And Problem Trials And Tribulations Are Like The Tide, They Roll In And They Subside And Roll Out And Life Goes On.

You Have To Hold Onto The Fact That If Nothing Else You Have Life! :thumbup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,946 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Life Is For Living Sounds Corny, Yes But With So Many Different Factors Trying To Take It From You, To Me Suicide Is The Ultimate Form Of Weakness. I Personally Feel That There Is No Justification For Killing You Self Aside From Terminal Disease.
So you do agree if one has a terminal disease, it's acceptable. So if one has mental disease it's acceptable? Now I don't mean slight depression. I am talking about serious mental disease that is making your life living hell. Then is suicide acceptable?
 
2

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Well boris you know what let me amend that, life is for the living. To me that means with all your facilities intact and having the ability to enjoy life, If you have a mental condition like manic depression no that does not qualifiy, that can be treated, im talking constant pain and suffering. so if the mental condition your speaking of causes constant suffering than yes, but not if your seeing blue tigers and your cat is talkng to you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,441 Posts
Boris said:
So you do agree if one has a terminal disease, it's acceptable. So if one has mental disease it's acceptable? Now I don't mean slight depression. I am talking about serious mental disease that is making your life living hell. Then is suicide acceptable?
A friend's father took his life last summer due to severe depression, which they had tried to treat for years. I don't know if I can now call taking his own life "suicide", it seemed more of a result of his disease. I don't believe he had full control of his actions: there was no rational intent.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,653 Posts
20vvillian said:
Well boris you know what let me amend that, life is for the living. To me that means with all your facilities intact and having the ability to enjoy life, If you have a mental condition like manic depression no that does not qualifiy, that can be treated, im talking constant pain and suffering. so if the mental condition your speaking of causes constant suffering than yes, but not if your seeing blue tigers and your cat is talkng to you!
Your post makes me pity your for your intolerance and lack of understanding. You can't possibly know what severe mental illness does to a person, and yes I speak from experience.

I've had people very near me commit suicide, and while their actions caused a great deal of greif, after a time many of the people close to them came to understand what they had been going through. Every person has their own limits of pain, both physical and mental, and mental pain can be just as debilitating as physical pain.

Imagine for a moment all of the depression, fear and anxiety that you've ever felt over loosing a job or significant other, and compound that with an overwhelming feeling of self doubt, and then realize that those feelings will be with you for the rest of your life. Every day. How long could you deal with it?

I'm not even going to begin to speak about the miserable state of mental health care in the U.S. but it begins with the stigmas people have against mental illness, as evidence by the post above. Both of the people I knew had been in long term therapy and on medication for their illness, the bottom line is that modern medicine just doesn't know how to effectively treat mental illness. If you think otherwise, you are uneducated in the matter.

Suicide is a deeply personal choice, and a selfish one, but it is none of my business to decide the life or death of another person based on my beliefs. That is far more selfish. A decision for suicide is between a person, their family, and their god and it simply doesn't involve me unless it's a relative and they choose to involve me. I suppose you could say that I understand it, but I don't support it.
 
2

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
First off sorry boris i know you only wanted opinions, Not a debate but some folk cant understand the question. Sorry for the momentary hijack.

The funny thing is in the begining of this thread boris asked us >

Let me know what is your personal belief on suicide. Somebody decides that life is not worth living. There may be many reasons, terminal illness, mental illness, bad luck in life, etc. Would you support the choice, would you be totally opposed to it, or maybe you would agree in certain circumstances. Think it through before you answer. I don't want from the hip answers as this is quite infammatory issue. Let it ferment little bit, look at your own life, lives of people around you, and then answer. So let me have it.

Jwil, Somehow You Used The Time He Asked You To Take To Think And Respond To His Question Instead To Criticize Not Only My Opinion, But Me Personally.
You Don't Know Me Or What I Have Been Through Or How Severe The Experiences Were. You Don't Know If I Had A Mental Issues Or Have Had A Family Member Dealing With One. To Call Me Intolerant And Ignorant Of The Issue Of Mental Illness Is Just Ridiculous.

So Let Me Get This Straight I'm Intolerant And Ignorant Because I Think Mentally Ill People Should Not Be Allowed End Their Lives, Because I Think They Can Be Helped, And That What They Are Feeling Is Not A Reason To End Their Lives! How Come That Does Not Sound Like A Bad Thing To Me, Oh That's Right I'm Ignorant.

imagine For A Moment All Of The Depression, Fear And Anxiety That You've Ever Felt Over Loosing A Job Or Significant Other, And Compound That With An Overwhelming Feeling Of Self Doubt, And Then Realize That Those Feelings Will Be With You For The Rest Of Your Life. Every Day. How Long Could You Deal With It?

This Moment You Describe, Is Part Of Living! Oh That Is Unless Your Life Is So Perfect That None Of The Above Has Ever Happened To You.
Oh I'm Sorry You Did Say That These Feeling Would Stay With You For Life Right? So How Do You Know You Cant Handle These Feelings Are They With You Right Now?

If You Say Yes That Means I'm Right And You Didn't Have To Kill Your Self And There Is Help For Someone In That Situation.

If You Say No, Then You Don't Know Personally And Therefore You Should Not Make A Blanket Statement That Severely Mental Ill People Should Have The Option To Kill Themselves. I dont have stigmas against anyone living, only against those that give it up for no good reason!

Please Refrain From Attacking My Character, Thanks :)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,653 Posts
You're intolerant and lack understanding because of this:

If you have a mental condition like manic depression no that does not qualifiy, that can be treated, im talking constant pain and suffering. so if the mental condition your speaking of causes constant suffering than yes, but not if your seeing blue tigers and your cat is talkng to you!
If you seriously had any experience with mental illness, and an open mind, you wouldn't post something so blindly uninformed. Yes I criticize people, like you, who say things like that because you don't realize what your saying is arrogant. You seem to think that if it's not a physical ailment like cancer, then it's not a big deal.

You sir, have a lot to learn and I sincerely hope you don't have to learn it first hand. Boris asked that we reflect seriously on his question and comment, and believe me after being through this I've done plenty of contemplating. You seem to have answered with a CNN sound bite and then you have the nerve to make a joke about it in your second post and assume a position of indignation when I call you on it. You have some nerve. :mad:
 
2

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Who the hell are you to regulate my opinion, and you talk about nerve, I was answering his question, and i just made a little joke. I know how serious metal ill ness is, and the way you skated around my question shows that your just playing devils advocate today sat 2\21\04, if your bored i understand, but please pick on someone thats having it! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,753 Posts
I know someone who once suffered from depression. It wasn't until he tried to commit suicide that he became aware of his problem with clinical depression. He sought treatment and now enjoys life.

Rock bottom has a way of waking us up. Sometimes it's what it takes, other times it isn't enough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,468 Posts
Hmm..I think I definetly agree with Jwil there that is based on "Every person has their own limits of pain, both physical and mental, and mental pain can be just as debilitating as physical pain". It's just so difficult to categorize and compare diff ppl's suffering among each other. I guess the most worthwhile judge would be the person wanting to commit suicide.

There are, however, some instances where I feel it may be wrong. For instance, say a teen broke up with their date for the first time, may be overwhelmed and kills themself in desparation w/out thinking the scenario through. I'm somewhat inclined to think that suicide in such a scenario would bbe wrong, b/c the person did not think things through seriously enough, or lacked the general life experience to handle such stress. But then again, it may be impossible to know exactly what pain and desperation they're going through.

Another scenario would be a schizophrenic who has maybe delusions of exorcism or something along the lines that they think they are dealing with a threat that is not really there. In some of the institutions they are tied in a straighjacket and not allowed to harm themselves b/c supposedly the logic (as far as I know) is that they don't know what they're doing to themsleves. While there may be no question that the delusions they're suffering may be fictional, I think it's much more of a challenge to question whether or not they're suffering regardless.
 
2

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
So we are not really answering the question what our belief are anymore. now we seem to be going more into what cause or brings on the reasoning that suicide is an option. I agree fully if your mind or body is functioning at a lower capacity, such as cancer destroying your body, or alzheimers which may not cause you physical pain but devistates you mental state. In these senarios a person might make a choice that its no longer worth it to go on living i could understand that.

Now as far as depression, when i original made my comment i was speaking in terms of someone that is communicating his problem and has options to suicide.
Of course if your 16 alone in a room in a deep state of depression than you decided not to live, without intervention whats to stop you.

But heres a question, what if you are not rational or capable of making clear judgements because of a severe mental disorder than should you be allowed to make the choice between living and dying?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,444 Posts
I'm for it. It's not my place to decide how some one lives or ends their life as long as the consequences don't harm others.

Though I would much more favor legalized euthenasia (sp) so that people could die on much more peaceful terms when they chose to end the game early. Why put a bullet in your head (very messy I hear) when you should be able to visit a doctor and be put to sleep?
 

·
Lisa Simpson
Joined
·
15,044 Posts
You get one post in this thread. That's it. 20V, Jeff, you are both done. You want a debate thread, start one.

I hate suicide. I hate talking about it, because it reminds me that it is an option.

Mental illness is the most horrible thing out there. It is worse than chronic pain, it is worse than being confined. It is war for control of your brain that you don't have the weapons to fight, let alone win. The treatments are hacks at best, and sometimes leave you worse off than you were "sick".

That being had, I have sympathy for people who are walking on that ledge. I wish I could be there for them, because some of them are truly ready to die and just moving on what is coming, and others are there because they don't know where else to go.

It is also important to distinguish between letting yourself die and killing yourself. I have several older relatives who have chosen not to fight their impending deaths. They left this world gracefully and at peace. Suicide is not peaceful. For the mentally ill, it is the final blow in the battle for control. For those who are not in good situations, it is a quick exit from crushing stress, again, it is the killer app. Crushing stress alone is not an excuse - it may kill you anyway, though, if you wait long enough.

So my stand is that suicide is never justified, but I can understand thinking about it and considering it. In some cases, I can even understand why a person chose it. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,200 Posts
Whenever anyone dies for any reason I always feel worse for the survivors than for the deceased. After all, the dead person is dead. Its the living who suffer from the loss.

Kenny
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
About this Discussion
35 Replies
24 Participants
MidnightOil
Volkswagen Passat Forum
Passatworld is a forum dedicated to Volkswagen Passat enthusiasts to discuss mods, Quattro, Turbo Diesel, reviews and more!
Full Forum Listing
Top