Volkswagen Passat Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a non-monsoon system, no sub.

I've now ordered two models of "compatible 99 VW Passat" (per Crutchfield) front speakers. The Pioneers didn't impress. The Kickers are better, but not as good as the one OEM with which I have to compare. There appears to be a tinny, hissing frequency, treble annoyance, even after playing with the various settings on my Pioneer aftermarket head unit. I didn't really pay attention to it at first, but there are separate tweeters up in the corner of all the doors.

What I've come to read is there are component speakers and coaxial speakers (yes, I don't know jack about car audio). Based on my reading, I'm coming to conclusion that my OEM VW speakers are technically component speakers. Is this correct, or did I misinterpret? It seems if I unplug the tweeter, the tinny sound is reduced, but is that the best way to handle replacement? Do most people just stick in coaxial and deal with it, considering the age of the car and the extra expense of component? Also, is there a "crossover" somewhere in my stereo config, from the factory, to handle these separate tweeters and component speakers?

My questions may not make sense, since I don't know what I'm talking about. Anyway, if someone could set me straight, give me an education, that would be nice. Thanks in advance.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
23,301 Posts
You are correct, they are component from the factory. The crossovers for each are built into the woofer and tweeter separately. Monsoon also has some crossover in them, but most of the work is done in the monsoon amp.

I always replace like for like. Component aftermarkets have a separate crossover that both the woofer and tweeter wire into. The trick is figuring out where to put the crossover. It will be at least 2W x 4L x 1H or so. I put mine in the kick panel or under the carpet up high at the firewall by making a void in the padding. The farther away they are from the speaker, the less effective they are at the crossover frequency they were designed to cut off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
You are correct, they are component from the factory. The crossovers for each are built into the woofer and tweeter separately. Monsoon also has some crossover in them, but most of the work is done in the monsoon amp.

I always replace like for like. Component aftermarkets have a separate crossover that both the woofer and tweeter wire into. The trick is figuring out where to put the crossover. It will be at least 2W x 4L x 1H or so. I put mine in the kick panel or under the carpet up high at the firewall by making a void in the padding. The farther away they are from the speaker, the less effective they are at the crossover frequency they were designed to cut off.
Thank you for confirming. Much appreciated.

I fully installed the Kickers, yesterday, having to remove the rubber guards on the upholstery panels to avoid interference from the new spacers, and with everything put back together, and the tweeters disconnected, it sounds pretty good. I think it's acceptable given my needs, and given the pricey component alternatives. If I change my mind, as I test it over the next few weeks, I think the plan would be to buy new component speakers for the fronts, and move the Kicker coaxial to the back speakers (which also need replacement), since those are more for sound "filler", less important.

So, since the crossovers are built in to the OEM speakers themselves, the coax speaker is getting the full spectrum of frequencies, correct?

One thing I never considered is that the fronts' tweeters are actually blocked when you shut the door - they end up blocked by the side of the dash. I'm sure those frequencies get out, to some degree, but that can't be optimal, can it? The rear tweeters are fully exposed, when the door is shut.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
23,301 Posts
You should be getting full frequency at the bottom of the door. The tweeters shouldn't be blocked, but I see what you mean. It's a compromise, but still projects the higher frequencies better than being low in the door.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks again for your help. At least I finally understand what I was hearing, and the OEM config. I'm fairly confident I'll stick with the coaxial Kickers but, like I said, I can always move those to the rear and buy components for the fronts. Just need to weather-seal the spacers and speakers and I can put this job to bed (at least for now).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,262 Posts
As a general rule of thumb, component speakers are better than co-axial.
In the case of the our cars, the tweeters have a capacitor glued to the back side of the speaker as does the woofer down on the lower corner of the door. That capacitor limits what frequencies are allowed to pass through to the speaker itself. This is known as a crossover, in it's simplest of form, but it does control highs and lows that are more matched to the speaker or voice-coil.
What VW does, I have no idea what those frequencies are, nor do I know the 'crossover' point where the tweeter and woofer overlap on frequencies.
A co-axial speaker for all intensive purposes just lets the all the frequencies pass right into the speaker. The speaker itself has limitations of what frequencies it reproduces. Hence the tinny sound on low end speakers.
Some more expensive co-axials do have some type crossover built in.
Higher end component speakers usually come with an externally wired crossover that is hooked somewhere between the power (music) source and the speaker itself.

Having a full range speaker down low and or a tweeter will obscure most of the high's by the time it gets to your ears. The carpet, door skins and seats all absorb that sound. Then you toss yourself into the mix, your legs block the direction of sound being projected off the speaker and that creates some undesirable listener effects.

This is all pretty technical stuff, but it all plays into the listening environment inside the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,262 Posts
Paul D (quality_sound) and I just drool over this stuff. I miss him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,262 Posts
He was pretty damn good.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
23,301 Posts
I used to dabble. Still do, but not to the extent I used to when I installed for a living. I play with my EQ settings and individual speaker settings almost every time I get into the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Hey guys, curious why aftermarket car speakers don't normally come with a waterseal gasket, like the OEM's have? Do most cars not have speakers exposed to the "water" side of the door?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
23,301 Posts
with so many mounting locations possible for speakers, they apparently chose not to include it. I've installed for years and never had a leak issue as a result.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
with so many mounting locations possible for speakers, they apparently chose not to include it. I've installed for years and never had a leak issue as a result.
Yeah, I get that, but it seems that a gasket exactly matching the footprint of the speakers would/could be used 90% of the time.

I know a leak is unlikely, especially since the B5 speaker hole edge bends back at 90-deg towards the outer door (if that's the correct way to describe it) and water will likely go around the hole. Also, it is now heavily inset with the use of a spacer. But, having been flooded, and all the possible ingress issues, I'm paranoid.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,262 Posts
I certainly haven't seen all the cars out there, by any means, but the few I have worked on with stereo installs, none of the doors had a surface that would make a gasket even worth while.
My Mercury Mystique, for example, had formed inner door panels, silicone was the only thing that would work as a gasket. The door panel surface was so uneven I had to make aluminum rings/spacers just so the speakers could sit flat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I certainly haven't seen all the cars out there, by any means, but the few I have worked on with stereo installs, none of the doors had a surface that would make a gasket even worth while.
My Mercury Mystique, for example, had formed inner door panels, silicone was the only thing that would work as a gasket. The door panel surface was so uneven I had to make aluminum rings/spacers just so the speakers could sit flat.
I see.

Guess what I'm using for gaskets? Andreas-approved All-purpose glue-your-Passat-back-together Caulk - GE Silicone Caulk. lol. Stuff works great. After it set on my door weather trim, it took a ton of force to peel it back to access the lock release set screw (when working on the lock mechanisms). I was really surprised, considering that trim is a difficult material to get something to bond to. I think the test should be if the Passat floats, it's water ingress safe, eh?
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top