So, the wifes goes out in my VW and comes home in a Honda....

4654 Views 57 Replies 16 Participants Last post by sprybry, Aug 24, 2013

davenay67

Discussion Starter · Aug 13, 2013

No, this is not the start of a joke (far from it), or a movie title, or a horror trade-in scenario.

My wife used my car to take one of the boys to football practice, but came home with another mom from the practice in the Mom's Honda minivan. My wife has to be one of the least mechanically inclined people alive, and her diagnosis that it stopped running and wouldn't start is pretty useless. I did manage to get out of her that it didn't die suddenly, rather it hesitated and sputtered a bit before it died. So, I have all my fingers and toes crossed that the timing belt didn't go south on me. It has about 60,000 miles on it since the last change, so it's getting ready for another change but I would consider myself a bit unlucky if it were the culprit. She was able to put more gas into the car, but that didn't help. It cranked fine but would not start.

It was late and I didn't feel like going out there to wait around in the pitch black of night for a tow truck to show up. I am commuting on my bike with the weather being nice, so I will take a trip to my car on the way home form work. I have my OBD-II scanner with me to pull any codes. Beyond that, eat dinner and then go back out and have the car towed home.

Without codes I'm blind right now. I know I need fuel, air and spark....and compression.

I'm really hoping it's something relatively simple like a crank position sensor or a fuel pump....I'm filled with a small amount of dread until I can rule out the timing belt.

Anything else that I should be aware of right now. I will post updates as I get them.

TIA.

Dave.

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1 - 20 of 58 Posts

pablitormDub

· #2 · Aug 13, 2013

:icon_eek:Good Luck, keep us posted, hopefully it is nothing big.

ylwagon

· #3 · Aug 13, 2013

Timing belt failure is all or nothing, and she made it to a gas station, so I think you can rule that out. You could take a can of starter fluid, pull the intake boot at the TB and with the throttle open give a shot. If it tries to run, then you can narrow the problem to fuel.

davenay67

Discussion Starter · #4 · Aug 13, 2013

ylwagon said:
Timing belt failure is all or nothing, and she made it to a gas station, so I think you can rule that out. You could take a can of starter fluid, pull the intake boot at the TB and with the throttle open give a shot. If it tries to run, then you can narrow the problem to fuel.

Actually, she didn't make it to a gas station. I should have mentioned in my first post that a kindly neighbor took pity on her and put some gas in the tank. She was certain that the car was rough and sputtering, so I'm hoping that my thought that the TB is OK is accurate.

Does starter fluid harm the MAF in any way..??

himecraig

· #5 · Aug 13, 2013

Perhaps the fuel pump...seems to be the season for them.
Hope it's no biggie.

birdman829

· #6 · Aug 13, 2013

davenay67 said:
Does starter fluid harm the MAF in any way..??

Not if you spray it downstream of the MAF into the throttle body as suggested

CPS would be perhaps the most innocuous problem. If it's the CPS it may even start as they seem to fail intermittently and do better with cold starts than warm starts.

alanmorreale

· #7 · Aug 13, 2013

Oddly, the coolant temp sensor made my car stall out, and prevented it from starting sometimes. Put the wrong air/fuel ratio and makes the engine choke and stall

sprybry

· #8 · Aug 13, 2013

What year is your car and what type of engine? If the car is sitting in a quiet place, you can fold your seats down and when you turn on your ignition you should hear the fuel pump turn on the prime the engine. I think this happens on most years passats, other may know for sure. Of course that does not rule out a fuse or relay, but it is a start. My cars fuel pump went out last week, I had it replaced by the dealership. Of course it could be many other things, but the symptoms that you described is exactly what happened to me. The service technician's notes said he wrapped on the top of the fuel pump and after that it almost wanted to start up again, but then never did tried to start.

Bdubskii

· #9 · Aug 13, 2013

Good luck!

davenay67

Discussion Starter · #10 · Aug 13, 2013

UPDATE: Stopped by my car on the way home from work. The timing belt looked intact. Plugged in the OBD-II scan tool and got no codes, so I proceeded to attempt to start the car. It fired up fairly quickly, but only ran for about 10 seconds before dying again. It would not restart.

So, the good news is that the timing belt is fine and not the cause of the breakdown. Given that the car did start I would imagine that the fuel pump is getting power and that the fuel pump relay is probably OK. Leaning heavily towards a bad fuel pump so my next step is to read Mr. Bentley on fuel pump diagnosis and testing.

You all think I'm on the right track..?? Anything else to check..??

Thanks..!!

Dave.

JeffTepper

· #11 · Aug 13, 2013

Does your car have an ICM ? If so, check it out as the cause of your current dilemma.

ylwagon

· #12 · Aug 14, 2013

davenay67 said:
You all think I'm on the right track..??

Very likely. A quick search found new VDO fuel pumps from about $170 (secarpart), $192 (autohausaz) and up. I just put a new VDO in my A4 a few weeks back, not that the fuel pump wasn't working, but it was an Ebay aftermarket $32 special that made me nervous in crowded traffic situations.

Its not a really difficult job, but made easier if the tank is almost empty. Use rubber gloves, and don't drop the flashlight in the gas like I did.

davenay67

Discussion Starter · #13 · Aug 14, 2013

ylwagon said:
Very likely. A quick search found new VDO fuel pumps from about $170 (secarpart), $192 (autohausaz) and up. I just put a new VDO in my A4 a few weeks back, not that the fuel pump wasn't working, but it was an Ebay aftermarket $32 special that made me nervous in crowded traffic situations.

Its not a really difficult job, but made easier if the tank is almost empty. Use rubber gloves, and don't drop the flashlight in the gas like I did.

Thanks YL.

Are VDO better fuel pumps than Bosch..??

Just a couple of tests I want to do on the fuel pump before I drop $$$ and order a new one.

99vwpassataeb

· #14 · Aug 14, 2013

I beleve VDO is the oem suppler for our fuel pumps. Both vdo or bosch are good quality.

Bdubskii

· #15 · Aug 14, 2013

VDO is just as quality of a product as Bosch.

Tomvw

· #16 · Aug 14, 2013

Be aware that power is supplied to the fuel pump for only about one second when the ignition is switched on, unless the engine is turning.
To test, run 12V directly to the pump or bypass the relay. There are a number of faults that can produce the symptoms you have mentioned.

00passat2.8

· #17 · Aug 14, 2013

i dont see the year or engine of your car but look for the fuel pump fuse in your fuse box (drivers side end of dash) and you can jumper from another fuse to it (you can use the end of a needle nose pliars for that ,fuse 28 in my car jumping b+ off of 27 with key in run position) will run the pump it should be audible enough to hear through the seat with no other noises around if the pump is good you should here the pump kind of start at a higher pitch and build to a slightly lower pitch as pressure is built if it runs and stops (assuming your not losing connection) then you probably have a bad pump you can pull the seat and test at connector to pump as well to verify circuit to pump. hope this helps

davenay67

Discussion Starter · #18 · Aug 14, 2013

Tomvw said:
Be aware that power is supplied to the fuel pump for only about one second when the ignition is switched on, unless the engine is turning.
To test, run 12V directly to the pump or bypass the relay. There are a number of faults that can produce the symptoms you have mentioned.

Thanks, Tom. The 12V applied directly to the fuel pump will be my first test tonight. I have a motorcycle battery handy that will do the job nicely. I heard no noises or signs when the ignition was turned on.

Should the fuel pump work with direct power, which I doubt it will, then I have the extra troubleshooting to perform on wiring, relays and fuses....

00passat2.8 said:
i dont see the year or engine of your car but look for the fuel pump fuse in your fuse box (drivers side end of dash) and you can jumper from another fuse to it (you can use the end of a needle nose pliars for that ,fuse 28 in my car jumping b+ off of 27 with key in run position) will run the pump it should be audible enough to hear through the seat with no other noises around if the pump is good you should here the pump kind of start at a higher pitch and build to a slightly lower pitch as pressure is built if it runs and stops (assuming your not losing connection) then you probably have a bad pump you can pull the seat and test at connector to pump as well to verify circuit to pump. hope this helps

2004 1.8T tip FWD. Saw this stuff in the Bentley....I hate that manual more every time I have to refer to it..!!

michalskim23

· #19 · Aug 14, 2013

12v should make it work unless its switched on the ground side. before doing all that just open the gas cap and put your ear really close, Than have someone turn the keyto the ON position. Listen for the pump, It should be obvious. than start the car and let it die. Next try to listen again while some one turns the key 2 clicks.

davenay67

Discussion Starter · #20 · Aug 15, 2013

Another Update.

Had the wife turn the key in the ignition whilst I had my ear right next to the fuel pump. Nothing.

Next I put 12V from a small motorcycle battery directly into the -ve and +ve terminals. Again Nothing.

So, it would appear the fuel pump is dead. One item of curiosity is that for good measure I decided to measure the voltage at the plug that goes into the fuel pump. It read 3.45v even with the ignition off, and still read 3.45v when the ignition key was turned. Not sure if this is relevant to the problem, or whether I am doing some wrong with my voltage reading..??

Dave.

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