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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Biden: Stimulus doing more `than we had hoped'
Vice President Joe Biden says the $787 billion economy stimulus "is in fact working" despite public skepticism and continuing criticism.
Biden defends stimulus plan
"The recovery act has played a significant role in changing the trajectory of our economy, and changing the conversation in this country," Biden said. "Instead of talking about the beginning of a depression, we are talking about the end of a recession."
Really?

Now, keep in mind despite all this, only a fraction of the stimulus that was reportedly marked for spending has actually been spent. Should the remaining money go unspent/be "returned"? Afterall, even if you buy Biden's remarks that the stimulus package is turning things around, how could that really be if only much of it hasn't been spent yet?

Either way, how does Biden also reconcile his remarks with this fact:
Unemployment rate jumps to 9.7 percent...highest rate since 1983

or how about this?
Prime-Loan Defaults Surpass Subprime for 1st Time

How delusional are these people?

Of course, a few billion of that was spent on the silly C.A.R.S. (aka Cash for Clunkers) program - a program which was orignially supposed to "only" cost 1 billion dollars and fund the program through Nov 1.

And now the President and Democrats apparently want to go it alone on healthcare?

These people are complete morons. Fortunately, more and more people are no longer buying into their b.s.:
Daily Tracking Poll


I thought Bush had poor fiscal policy (and he did) but these guys have NO fiscal policy.

I'm curious to know how Sharky and the other diehard supporters of these people can honestly continue to defend this Congress and the administration? Just a few years ago this gang was crying about the importance of solid fiscal policy. Now, they're mute on the issue.
 

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I thought Bush had poor fiscal policy (and he did) but these huys have NO fiscal policy.
Their basic plan is if we all wait long enough, things will get better. The recent stimulus plans are nothing more than window dressing while momentum swings. The most the plans do is mildly alter people's perceptions, consumer and business confidence, that things are getting better, but certain facts like those you threw out above work in the opposite direction. In many ways they are following the strategy that many people attribute to the Republicans, leave consumers and businesses alone and let things sort themselves out by economic natural selection.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Their basic plan is if we all wait long enough, things will get better. The recent stimulus plans are nothing more than window dressing while momentum swings. The most the plans do is mildly alter people's perceptions, consumer and business confidence, that things are getting better, but certain facts like those you threw out above work in the opposite direction. In many ways they are following the strategy that many people attribute to the Republicans, leave consumers and businesses alone and let things sort themselves out by economic natural selection.
Who's basic plan is to leave things alone and let the market sort it out? That is what should happen more or less but that's NOT the plan of this administration or Congress.
 

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Who's basic plan is to leave things alone and let the market sort it out? That is what should happen more or less but that's NOT the plan of this administration or Congress.
I guess I'm saying they talk about tweaking this or that, but in terms of materiality, their efforts to date have amounted to nothing. Cash for clunkers as an example. The potential impact of health care reform is huge, but it's so far from a reality and the terms are so vague that it's not fair to count that yet.
 

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Of course, a few billion of that was spent on the silly C.A.R.S. (aka Cash for Clunkers) program - a program which was orignially supposed to "only" cost 1 billion dollars and fund the program through Nov 1.
First of all this was a very successful program and more money was added becuase of that. It is also the reason it has already ended since the money has been spent. So why are you complaining??? The money has been spent????

http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2009/07/31/cash_for_clunkers/index.html
 

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First of all this was a very successful program and more money was added becuase of that. It is also the reason it has already ended since the money has been spent. So why are you complaining??? The money has been spent????
By what measure has the program been successful in terms of helping the economy? It benefited a relatively small group of consumers and businesses. The cars most frequently sold weren't the slow moving models that are stagnating in inventories.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
First of all this was a very successful program and more money was added becuase of that. It is also the reason it has already ended since the money has been spent. So why are you complaining??? The money has been spent????

http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2009/07/31/cash_for_clunkers/index.html
It was successful?! :lol:

I guess you're right, it successfully overpaid people for vehicles and added billions to the national debt. A decade from now my kids will still be paying for those used cars. People flocked to it because no one in their right mind would pay as much as the government did for some of these trade ins. And you think it helped the auto industry at all? The program ended 2 months early. Let's watch new and used auto sales for the next several months.

The program was successfull in that it once again demonstrated that the federal government can not accurately estimate program expenses. It cost 300% more than originally estimated and ended 2 months early.

Yet, you consider it successfull?! :crazy:

How about the rest of the items there Tom. You think your boys are "successfull" there as well? Clearly more and more disagree with you. Look at the approval ratings. Hell, 57% of the people in this survey would replace the entire Congress: 57% Would Like to Replace Entire Congress
 

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By what measure has the program been successful in terms of helping the economy? It benefited a relatively small group of consumers and businesses. The cars most frequently sold weren't the slow moving models that are stagnating in inventories.
Car dealers sold cars. Bad news???? I'm sure their emplyees are happy. People got new cars for a great price. Bad news???? I'm sure the new owners are happy too. The process occurred very quickly since the original plan expected the money to last until November 1. Bad news????
 

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The program ended 2 months early.

Are you that dense not to realize that timing was based on the an estimate of the rate the money was spent. Nov 1 was aribtrary.:crazy: Now let you skivies unwind a little and take a deep breath.
 

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How about the rest of the items there Tom. You think your boys are "successfull" there as well. Clearly many disagree with you. Look at the approval ratings. Hell, 57% of the people in this survey would replace the entire Congress: 57% Would Like to Replace Entire Congress
I seem to remember just a few months ago a lot of poo pooing surveys and polls. Are you NOW going to support them???:crazy: :whistle::sleep:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Are you that dense not to realize that timing was based on the an estimate of the rate the money was spent. Nov 1 was aribtrary.:crazy: Now let you skivies unwind a little and take a deep breath.
Are you too dense to understand why that is problematic? Wait don't answer. You've already proven this repeatedly in the past.
 

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Car dealers sold cars. Bad news???? I'm sure their emplyees are happy. People got new cars for a great price. Bad news???? I'm sure the new owners are happy too. The process occurred very quickly since the original plan expected the money to last until November 1. Bad news????
"News" is the key word in all you're saying. Hype without substance to help shape people's perceptions of what the government is doing to make the economy better. It's window dressing, smoke and mirrors, an empty suit.

What about 700,000 cars with their blocks destroyed, sent to the junkyard for melting without any salvage utilization. They may as well have just provided outright grants and kept the 700,000 cars in the pool.
 

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Car dealers sold cars. Bad news???? I'm sure their emplyees are happy. People got new cars for a great price. Bad news???? I'm sure the new owners are happy too. The process occurred very quickly since the original plan expected the money to last until November 1. Bad news????
Car dealers made money, great. What about the hundreds of thousands in the automotive repair industry that have lost out on business? What about parts suppliers and auto parts stores? What about salvage yards and body shops? What about the hundreds of thousands of small used car dealers? How about the environmental impact of this program? To hell with concept of recycling right?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Car dealers made money, great. What about the hundreds of thousands in the automotive repair industry that have lost out on business? What about parts suppliers and auto parts stores? What about salvage yards and body shops? What about the hundreds of thousands of small used car dealers? How about the environmental impact of this program? To hell with concept of recycling right?
Moreso than that, all it did was artificially inflate new sales figures for a brief period. There is no lasting effect of the program. It served no real benefit to the U.S. automakers and dealers it was designed to help. As I mentioned before, lets check new and used car sales figures again in a few months.

On a similar note, after the federal government used our tax dollars to take a stake in GM a few short months ago, we now see this: GM plans to export cars from China to the US

Riddle me that.
 

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First of all this was a very successful program and more money was added becuase of that.
Car dealers sold cars. Bad news???? I'm sure their emplyees are happy. People got new cars for a great price. Bad news???? I'm sure the new owners are happy too. The process occurred very quickly since the original plan expected the money to last until November 1. Bad news????
Car dealers made money, great.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.co...truggle-With-Credit-Slow-Government-Payments/

Yea, thats successful.
 

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Car dealers made money, great. What about the hundreds of thousands in the automotive repair industry that have lost out on business? What about parts suppliers and auto parts stores? What about salvage yards and body shops? What about the hundreds of thousands of small used car dealers? How about the environmental impact of this program? To hell with concept of recycling right?
x2
What about all of the fleet companies and their customers that rely on dealer inventories for purchasing their fleet vehicles? My company took a beating from all of the dealers scrambling to pander to the retail customer and ignoring our purchase requests for our clients.
And what about all of theose people that had those "clunkers" that could barely keep them running with what little money they had, then took on payments they may likely default on?
 

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I thought the goal of this stimulus was to create jobs.

Unemployment just reached 25 YEAR HIGH.

Also keep in mind that government unemployment rating ONLY includes people that are collecting unemployment. So those that are unemployed and NO benefits don't count.

Car dealers made money, great. What about the hundreds of thousands in the automotive repair industry that have lost out on business? What about parts suppliers and auto parts stores? What about salvage yards and body shops? What about the hundreds of thousands of small used car dealers? How about the environmental impact of this program? To hell with concept of recycling right?
It's governments way of solving problems.

Sad part is that there is TONS of people that would line up in LONG lines to get these cars they are crushing....people are struggling.

Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
 

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Car dealers made money, great. What about the hundreds of thousands in the automotive repair industry that have lost out on business? What about parts suppliers and auto parts stores? What about salvage yards and body shops? What about the hundreds of thousands of small used car dealers? How about the environmental impact of this program? To hell with concept of recycling right?
Wow are you serious?????? I guess we should just ban the sale of any new cars!:crazy:
 

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Moreso than that, all it did was artificially inflate new sales figures for a brief period. There is no lasting effect of the program. It served no real benefit to the U.S. automakers and dealers it was designed to help. As I mentioned before, lets check new and used car sales figures again in a few months.

On a similar note, after the federal government used our tax dollars to take a stake in GM a few short months ago, we now see this: GM plans to export cars from China to the US

Riddle me that.
I suspect you'll likely be right about the sales impact going forward.

It always struck me as strange that a program paid for by US taxpayers (at least theoretically :p) would make payment to any automaker whether foreign or domestic. IOW, why should US taxpayers subsidize sales of Honda and Toyota, etc. via the clunkers program? If people wanted the clunkers payment, then they should have had to buy a vehicle made in 'Merica by 'Mericans. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that opens the whole "but the Camry's made in TN, and the Chrysler minivans are made in Canada" can of worms...
 
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