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Discussion Starter #1
Just thought I'd vent about todays experience with a dealership selling a Passat.
I saw an ad on autotrader for a Passat that fit what I was looking for so I e-mailed the dealership and they quoted me a pretty good price for the car. I talked to the salesman on the phone and exchanged some e-mails and arranged to come see the car. So I show up and all of a sudden he tells me he made a mistake on the price quoted and gave me the new price, over two grand higher. Of course I pitched a fit, talked to the manager etc. No luck. There defense was that they had tried to call me and e-mailed me that they had made a mistake. Problem is they tried to get ahold of me an hour before my appointment. I wasn't home because I was making the hour drive to the dealership!!! :mad:
Anyway thanks for letting me vent. I really do hate dealing with sleaze like this. :(
 

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ok, so here is a little story to back yours up bro.... Owning a detail business for a few years, i got to work for a couple of dealerships. one day, as i was cleaning a 4.7l Mustang GT, one of the saleman came to the car and ask if i would be done soon. I told him that it would be done in an half hour. He was happy since he had customer coming to look at it in 1 hour. 10 minutes before the customer got there, he came with a new sticker for the car (big yellow sales numbers) at $2700 dollars more then it said on the car!!!. He even told me while he was taking the old one off that he will pretend to give a good deal to the customer by knoking $2000 dollars off, but in reality, he was making $700 more. They are sleaze and thiefs :evil: :mad: .

anyways, they are just trying to make more on you, don't let them :thumbup: .
 

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I think they knew damn good and well that they were going to renig on the price to you. This was their effort to get you to their dealership. The fact that people show up at dealerships means that dealers won't be going out of business anytime soon. Just the very fact that you are on their property means that you are no longer on your own territory, both figuratively and literally. Just the fact that you are on their turf means that they have the advantage. Many psychologically weaker people view this as pressure, and will cave in under this self-induced pressure and buy a car, even if it isn't the car they are after. Ever notice when you ask a dealer a question they go to their manager to get the answer, then take you around the dealership to show you cars while the manager "researches" the question? There is a reason for this. The dealer is trying to occupy your time and trying to catch your eye on a car, which may be a different one than you are interested in. Even if they don't "catch your eye" on a car they are experts at talking you into buying a car, even if you know it isn't the one you want. In all reality, usually the manager already knows the answer to the question that he is "researching". It is all about getting you on their property and keeping you there as long as possible so that you may have your eye caught on a car, whether it be the one you want or not, and then caving in to your self-induced pressure, buying a car, and satisfying the dealer. For people that feel this pressure when they go to a dealership, usually this self-induced pressure only increases during the time they are at the dealership. Dealers know this and use this in their advantage by keeping you there as long as possible. The fact is, the longer you remain at the dealership the more likely you are to buy a car. Also notice that if you went to a VW dealer and told them that you wanted a Passat but told them you think you will wait until the redesign (B6) comes out, the dealer will try to convince you otherwise. They know that if you say you are going to wait until the redesign, that the chances are, you won't be back. They don't care about pairing you with the car you want. They care about moving inventory and making profit. Another common technique that car dealers use is to say that you had better act today because this deal won't be around tomorrow. Sometimes they even go on to give specific examples of people that have lost out because they waited. That is the most classic salesmanship technique in the book, for car dealers, real estate agents, or any salesman. I could write all day about the nonsense techniques that dealers use and how you can avoid that. The sooner people realize that dealers don't care about them but rather, care about selling cars, at any possible expense, including sacrificing their own integrity, the better off people are.

Let me tell you something more. My sister's husband's brother (hopefully that isn't too complicated) is a used car salesman for a major Dodge dealership in Denver, CO. He makes $15,000 per month and barely has a high school education. (I didn't make any mistakes with the zeros either, he makes $15,000 per month!). I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. My brother-in-law (sister's husband), is an incredibly smart, sincere, excellent guy. His brother (the used car salesman) is about half as intelligent as my brother-in-law, untrustworthy, but is a good enough salesman to sell a refrigerator to an eskimo or a bottle of sand to an arab. It still amazes me that they are brothers considering how diametrically opposite they are. Anyway, the fact is, car dealers are excellent at what they do, and most will sucker punch you when you least expect it. They are experts at making you believe something that is truly false. They are experts at talking you into the car you don't want. The fact is, they don't give a shit, they want your money and absolutely nothing else. And they will do absolutely anything to get your money, including compromising their own integrity. And they don't want your money when the redesign comes out, they don't want your money next year, next month, next week, or even tomorrow. They want your money right now and they want all of it.
 

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oh, and don't get suckered into telling them how much you wanna pay a month. they really screw you there. also, if you're paying cash, especially on a used car, make sure you don't mention it until you've agreed on a price. dealers make a lot of money through finance charges.
 

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D.Passat00 said:
oh, and don't get suckered into telling them how much you wanna pay a month. they really screw you there. also, if you're paying cash, especially on a used car, make sure you don't mention it until you've agreed on a price. dealers make a lot of money through finance charges.
You know how you can get through the finance charge thing? Negotiate a lower overall price based on financing. Then instead of paying the car off over the next 48 months, 60 months (or however long you negotiated the term) pay it off immediately. Your check doesn't go to the dealer it goes to the company that you financed through. Just look over the fine print and be sure you don't get penalized for early pay off. Most of the time you do not. Use this to your advantage.
 

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Atrovent said:
... So I show up and all of a sudden he tells me he made a mistake on the price quoted and gave me the new price, over two grand higher. Of course I pitched a fit, talked to the manager etc. No luck. ... I really do hate dealing with sleaze like this. :(
That's when you tell them you're going to tell ClubB5, VWVortex, etc... (and name some other forums as well :wink: ) WHO/WHERE they are and that you will NEVER buy from them and will urge others to do the same! Then walk away calmly and leave. Don't waste any more of your time with them.

So who are the rat-bastards?
 

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TweakedB5 said:
So who are the rat-bastards?
Ah, you can always spot a Stern listener by the lingo :D . Car salesmen are mostly scum, and most of the comments above are correct. There is an art to negotiation. Your best weapons are Fear and Surprise (oops, sorry that's Monty Python) I mean being informed and being willing to walk away at any time. If the dealer knows you will walk out and you don't give a shit, you'll be taken seriously - but you have to be willing to do it. Don't be emotional over the price or negotiation. Their goal is to take every last cent they can get from you, while your goal is to drive out in a free car. Somewhere in between you need to find a happy place.
 

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Beavis is very true! When I got my first car (a piece of shit but none the less a car)My father (who sells UPS'S) and I sat down with a salesman and he tried to trow in ALL THE "UNSEEN TAXES AND WHAT-NOTS" (you know, the bullshit!) My pops said "I'm not paying that , and in fact we are gonna pay X amount of $ for it." He showed NO EMOTION and his voice was unwaving. The guy was a sleaze-ball... down to the greazy hair. He goes back to his boss and came back with the answer "no", so he says "well, good bye". The sales man got scared of losing the deal and ran back to the boss. as we were half way out the door he came running out and almost dragged us back in there!
In the end I believe that Beavis said it right- SHOW NO EMOTION! Get him on the defensive! Never pay even $1000 under the sticker! Low ball, Low ball! It's there loss there $$, there next check, and there quota they have to meet! :thumbup:
 

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I have a very good friend who is a owner of a GM dealer and the Sales manager of the same dealer is also a friend. A tactic they hate when dealing on two like ( identically equipped cars .. same $$) cars between 2 dealers is as follows.

A) the cars are worth the same $$ to the penny

B) Find an online calculator and calculate the payments based on interest rates available over X months .. In other words if you can afford $400/Mo and the calculation says to pay the car off = 48 months .. thats the figure your looking for .. 48 Mo..
C) go to both dealers and tell them you don't give a crap about the trade value .. don't give a crap about the new car cost .. don't give a crap about taxes/destination charges/interest rates/prep charges/ documentation fees .. that you want THEM to tell you what your monthly payment is going to be over *48* months.

( First thing they will ask is what you want to pay .. stick to your guns here .. make them quote .. also they will ask what you want for yours .. make them quote. If you say you want $10,000 they will say they love to but the manager will only allow $8000 )



What this does is ;

1) Makes them find the best financing
2) Makes them lowball the margin
3) Makes them drop or lower some of the fees that add after.
4) Makes them give the highest trade value.

The math in the end is easy .. and suprising.

Dealer A) $380 / mo

Dealer B) $400 / Mo

Diff $20 / mo x 48 = $960 in YOUR pocket.

My Passat dropped over $1500 from the best price offered doing it this way and a difference or $2600 between two dealers on the exact same car.

You will be suprised how things will drop in proce if they want to sell a car. If they don't want to deal this way .. walk away.. Your the customer .. believe it or not .. YOU set the rules. Keep it in mind that You don't have to buy a car to make a living .. but THEY have to sell one to make a living.
 

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VWPassat8, not all but most business's. Before i bought my passat I went to a couple of dealerships to check cars. At that time i still wanted a golf. Course it isnt very easy to find golfs (in the states that is) and so i was looking at all cars. The dealership was CarMax in Atlanta. I told him I want a car with manual tranny for i dont know how to drive an automatic (lol, i do now but the first time i drove an auto was like 3 months ago and i drove it like 4/5 times... ). Back to the dearship story. The guy had a RED mustang GT for like 90 k milles. The car looked i good condition and i wouldnt mind owning a GT but I know that as a young person (19) the insurance is terribly high, so is the fuel comsumption (its a damn V8) and lets not forget the color red which for some insurance companies is a big deal :???: . Well he was tryin to convince me that that was the car for me. I told him, wat about the insurance and gas and everything. He was denying and saying that I could afford it and that it was the perfect car for a student!!!! I checked other car dealers and i found that they are full of $hit. I am just glad that I got my passat from a private party :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
TweakedB5 said:
That's when you tell them you're going to tell ClubB5, VWVortex, etc... (and name some other forums as well :wink: ) WHO/WHERE they are and that you will NEVER buy from them and will urge others to do the same! Then walk away calmly and leave. Don't waste any more of your time with them.

So who are the rat-bastards?
What I did tell them was that they were going to give me the quoted price or I was going to walk and that the first thing I was going to do was file a complaint with the BBB and write a letter to the Ford Motor Company. It didn't seem to phase him (maybe he sees alot of BBB complaints?). So if for some reason you need to deal with a Ford dealership, steer clear of Hemborg Ford in Norco, CA.
 

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Atrovent said:
So if for some reason you need to deal with a Ford dealership, steer clear of Hemborg Ford in Norco, CA.
I'm just quoting it so that people see the name, and so it might boost a Google search a little higher :p


Oddly enough, when I went test driving, I stopped by Ford to try a Thunderbird, and the Ford dealership was the rudest of any dealership I went to! I guess b/c I'm only 22 at the time I didn't look like the typical Tbird owner. Finally I just said "Well your competitors at Ford Springfield would love my $40,000 so I am going to head over there". Less than a minute later we are gettting in the car for a test drive.
That was the Ford dealership in Norristown, PA on Ridge Pike.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
gig103 said:
Oddly enough, when I went test driving, I stopped by Ford to try a Thunderbird, and the Ford dealership was the rudest of any dealership I went to!
It's funny, but when I had some engine problems on my Explorer, the dealership in Cleveland Tn was extremely helpful. Even though the car was way out of warranty, they still replaced the entire engine based on a recall of the timing belt. The point is that there really are a few good dealerships, but you have to really look to find one.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
UPDATE:
Well yesterday the salemanager gave me a call. Seems that my compaint to the BBB had reached their office. Of course he was SO sorry that it happened and that he WAS ON MY SIDE and that to show he was such a good guy, he would give me the car at only a grand over the original price quoted. What a nice guy :crazy: Of course I politely told him that I wasn't interested in doing business with a dishonest or incompitent dealer and that my complaint would stand.

Today, he called my and has "an amazing deal" for me. Apparently he is now willing to honor the original qouted price. So I stand at a crossroads, do I take a pretty good price on exactly the car I want from a SLEAZY dealership. Or do I let it go....suggestions? The price is $14,860 on a 02 GLS w/leather, tip, and 32k mi.
 

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Don't buy from him. He would still be making a healthy profit. By buying from him you would be rewarding his sleazy behavior.

Look on Yahoo Classifieds or a variety of other online classified car ad forums. I'm absolutely sure you will find just as good of a deal (or an even better deal) from a private owner.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Well, it is actually below private party value....and since it does have grey leather which has been hard for me to find, I'm leaning towards purchasing it. Good thing that I don't have to finance, no extra money for him.
 

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I'm sorry RAH,

But I can't help laughing, imagining the shit eating grin on that salesman's face as he brings out the new sticker. Its just so evil, and unnecessary :lol: .

-Wapptor (its late)
 
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