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Discussion Starter #1
I had no problem agreeing with the Singapore government in the canning of Michael Fay in 94, and I have no problem with them carrying out the execution of the convicted drug trafficker below. Although they could change the method to lethal injection instead of hanging. But I can understand that the government of Singapore chose this method to convey the message.

Singapore Leader: Execution to Go Ahead
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051201/ap_on_re_as/singapore_australian

By GILLIAN WONG, Associated Press Writer
25 minutes ago

SINGAPORE - The family of an Australian man convicted of drug trafficking visited him Thursday, hours before his scheduled execution, and Singapore's prime minister ruled out a reprieve. Nguyen Tuong Van is scheduled to hang early Friday (Thursday evening EST) at the maximum-security Changi Prison.

Nguyen, 25, received a mandatory death sentence after he was caught in 2002 at Singapore's airport on his way home to Melbourne carrying about 14 ounces of heroin.

Singapore refused repeated pleas from Australian leaders for clemency for Nguyen, saying the sentence must be carried out because drug trafficking is a serious offense that ruins lives.

In Berlin, Singapore's Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said the execution would go ahead as planned.

"We have stated our position clearly," Lee said in answer to a question after meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel. "The penalty is death."

Nguyen's mother, Kim, and twin brother, Nguyen Khoa, entered the jail on Thursday afternoon for a final visit. A friend, Kelly Ng, also was there.

"We've just had a beautiful last visit. It was a great visit and quite uplifting," said Lex Lasry, another of Nguyen's lawyers. He brushed away tears as he spoke to the media.

Lasry has criticized Singapore's mandatory death penalty for some drugs cases and attacked the clemency appeal process as lacking transparency.

"The president has in the past commuted the death penalty," Singapore's Home Affairs Ministry said in an e-mailed statement.

"Every petition that is submitted to the president is different and each and every one of them are carefully considered, based on its merits, taking into account all relevant factors," the statement said.

Earlier Thursday, Australian Attorney General Philip Ruddock called the planned execution "a most unfortunate, barbaric act that is occurring."

Asked about the comment in Berlin, Lee would only say that "the Australian press is colorful."

Lee emphasized that all factors, including Australian letters for clemency, had been "taken into account" but said that "the law will have to take its course."

According to local media, Singapore has granted clemency to six inmates on death row — all Singaporeans — since independence in 1965.

"He is completely rehabilitated, completely reformed, completely focused on doing what is good and now they are going to kill him," said Julian McMahon, one of Nguyen's Australian lawyers.

Hundreds of people held a candlelight vigil outside Australia's Parliament House in the capital of Canberra on Wednesday to show support for Nguyen. More supporters planned to rally in Sydney at the appointed time of Nguyen's execution.

Australia scrapped the death penalty in 1973 and hanged its last criminal in 1967, while Singapore has executed more than 100 people for drug-related offenses since 1999.
 

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All I can say is it sucks to be him. Rule number 1; when in someone else's country, know and follow their laws. If you don't like their laws/rules/customs, then go somewhere else.

As a college graduate (1989), I was offered a job in south east Asia where I would be based out of Singapore. The HR department told me to read up on the laws and social customs of Singapore before accepting the job and I'm glad they recommended that I do that. It's apparently a very nice place to live (clean, modern, great infrastructure, etc), however, it's also a very tightly controlled social environment and they don't put up with visitors/outsiders who claim ignorance or choose to not follow the rules. Just my 2c.
 

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Do I personally think it’s too harsh a punishment for the crime? Yes.

But he’s guilty and it’s their country, their laws, and he chose to break them. No one tricked him or took advantage of him.

“We” complain so much about all the drugs coming out of that area, so we can hardly complain when a country is really tough on those criminals.
 

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hotani said:
Isn't death a bit excessive for drug trafficking? Or anything for that matter?
nope. I think if punishments were more harsh some people wouldnt even think about breaking the law, any of them. except speeding of course :p. Im not making lite of the situation but, he did break the law and must be held accountable for his actions. death to harsh? maybe, will he do it again, no.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I find Singaporean among the most courteous & honest people both on the personal & business level. From this side of the pond, some may disagree with their policy, but you’ll be hard pressed to find another modern country that you can feel perfectly safe walking the street at night even in the slum of Singapore. Although I wish they would ease up on the gum chewing law, it’s really not enforced, but you can’t buy a stick of gum anywhere over there. I absolutely love Singapore and the people.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
guy022077 said:
... death to harsh? maybe, will he do it again, no.
ROTFL ... :thumbup:

Drug trafficking is one the most sensitive issue for the government of Singapore. The Singapore of old was a drug & crime infested country filled with thugs & mafia. Cutting off the drug traffickers cut off the life line of the mafia, this was one of Lee Kuan Yew's first order to bring Singapore to the properous and wealthy nation it is today. The death penalty for drug trafficking kept even the baddest of the bad mafia Triads :nervous: in check.

I wouldn't feel so sorry for this Australian dude, more likely he belongs to the Triads.
 

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guy022077 said:
nope. I think if punishments were more harsh some people wouldnt even think about breaking the law, any of them.
*YAWN* Again with the deterrence theory. It doesn't work. Your average drug dealer isn't deliberating "oh my god, should i do this? if i get caught i could be punished with life in prison or the death penalty..." Criminals typically don't spend a lot of time ruminating about potential consequences.

Don't be so simple.
 

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Rabbit said:
*YAWN* Again with the deterrence theory. It doesn't work. Your average drug dealer isn't deliberating "oh my god, should i do this? if i get caught i could be punished with life in prison or the death penalty..." Criminals typically don't spend a lot of time ruminating about potential consequences.

Don't be so simple.
they would if i cut their hands off for stealing, or if i broke their legs for running from the police and if that didnt work it could only not work twice.Granted i think a serious punishment would be better then death but, i didnt make the laws i just have to follow them. If the punishment is to great you wont break them.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Rabbit said:
*YAWN* Again with the deterrence theory. It doesn't work. Your average drug dealer isn't deliberating "oh my god, should i do this? if i get caught i could be punished with life in prison or the death penalty..." Criminals typically don't spend a lot of time ruminating about potential consequences.

Don't be so simple.
May not work in the US, but it DOES work in Singapore which is the country of topic. Don't be too complicated.

Also, don't bother with smuggling gun over ... bullet leaves the nozzle = automatic execution, regardless of it hitting or killing anyone :nervous:.

Pretty simple law eh? ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Rabbit said:
Nah. Doesn't work. Just drives the behavior deeper underground.

some light reading on the topic: http://www.umsl.edu/~rkeel/200/ratchoc.html
Title: Rational Choice and Deterrence Theory ... nice theory, hope you're not hanging your hat on this theory of the article.

Not that it'll ever pass law, but had we the death penalty in the US for every drug trafficking violation instead of a slap on the wrist, I'll go out on a limb a say that we'll be seeing a whole lot less folks committing this crime. We're not talking about moonshine run here, and fyi, drug trafficking in the US has always been a deep underground event. Heck, it'll probably get rid of half the inmates we have behind bars. ;)

Besides, this is Singapore that we're talking about, it's pretty hard to dispute the success Singapore has in irradicating their drug & mafia problems. Granted that Sing is a much smaller country than ours, but their drug problems carried over from the mainland Chinese were 10X worst than ours. Perhaps we should take a page off Lee Kuan Yew drug trafficking law.
 

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vuvision said:
May not work in the US, but it DOES work in Singapore which is the country of topic. Don't be too complicated.

Also, don't bother with smuggling gun over ... bullet leaves the nozzle = automatic execution, regardless of it hitting or killing anyone :nervous:.

Pretty simple law eh? ;)
Pretty much Bullshit actually, Singapore continue to be one of the largest Heroin marketplaces in the world. Probably 2nd behind Afghanistan. not bad for a country that's what 3X the size of Washington DC.

the truth is that even Singapore will admit that thier laws aren't stopping the heroin trafficking.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
jimbob said:
Pretty much Bullshit actually, Singapore continue to be one of the largest Heroin marketplaces in the world. Probably 2nd behind Afghanistan.

the truth is that even Singapore will admit that thier laws aren't stopping the heroin trafficking.
I don't have time to google on this at the moment, but I think you may have mistaken Sing for Thailand. Plus, not disputing stopping completely, and I don't think any country can claim this. I'd like to see the source if you have one on Sing being one of the largest "Heroin marketplaces" in the world. Also, by markketplace, do you mean producer? or consumer?
 

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and just for truths sake, Undeerground Drug trafficking in the US is a relatively new phenomina, since 1937, and those who know about it also realize that there is a strong correlation between the US drug war and the rise in violent crime.
 

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Rabbit said:
*YAWN* Again with the deterrence theory. It doesn't work.
Actually, it seems to work pretty well in Singapore. Almost all of the people who commit terrible crimes in that country are not citizens, but rather visitors.

I'll agree with you that deterrence doesn't work in the United States, but you won't like my conclusion on why it doesn't work.

It has something to do with race. I've already said too much...
 

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JamesBondage said:
It has something to do with race. I've already said too much...
Do you really mean race, or do you mean socioeconomic disadvantage? eek!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
jimbob said:
Pretty much Bullshit actually, Singapore continue to be one of the largest Heroin marketplaces in the world. Probably 2nd behind Afghanistan.

the truth is that even Singapore will admit that thier laws aren't stopping the heroin trafficking.
Then followed with ...

jimbob said:
and just for truths sake, Undeerground Drug trafficking in the US is a relatively new phenomina, since 1937, and those who know about it also realize that there is a strong correlation between the US drug war and the rise in violent crime.
jimbob must have left his med. at home today. Don't you hate someone calling you out as BS, but can't back up the BS that he pulled out from his ass? Still waiting for your source on Sing being the 2nd largest "heroin marketplaces" (<= not quite sure what this means myself). This is going to be fun.
 
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