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"Pat Tillman, a 'Pendejo', got what was coming to him..."

I do love the 1st Amendment right!

See below for Rene Gonzalez's thoughts on Pat Tillman's death in Afghanistan. :suspicio: in New England's Daily Collegian.

Oh...and email addresses if you feel compelled to share your thoughts...

[email protected]

[email protected]

Pat Tillman is not a hero: He got what was coming to him


By Rene Gonzalez
April 28, 2004

When the death of Pat Tillman occurred, I turned to my friend who was watching the news with me and said, "How much you want to bet they start talking about him as a 'hero' in about two hours?" Of course, my friend did not want to make that bet. He'd lose. In this self-critical incapable nation, nothing but a knee-jerk "He's a hero" response is to be expected.

I've been mystified at the absolute nonsense of being in "awe" of Tillman's "sacrifice" that has been the American response. Mystified, but not surprised. True, it's not everyday that you forgo a $3.6 million contract for joining the military. And, not just the regular army, but the elite Army Rangers. You know he was a real Rambo, who wanted to be in the "real" thick of things. I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures. Well, he got his wish. Even Rambo got shot in the third movie, but in real life, you die as a result of being shot. They should call Pat Tillman's army life "Rambo 4: Rambo Attempts to Strike Back at His Former Rambo 3 Taliban Friends, and Gets Killed."

But, does that make him a hero? I guess it's a matter of perspective. For people in the United States, who seem to be unable to admit the stupidity of both the Afghanistan and Iraqi wars, such a trade-off in life standards (if not expectancy) is nothing short of heroic. Obviously, the man must be made of "stronger stuff" to have had decided to "serve" his country rather than take from it. It's the old JFK exhortation to citizen service to the nation, and it seems to strike an emotional chord. So, it's understandable why Americans automatically knee-jerk into hero worship.

However, in my neighborhood in Puerto Rico, Tillman would have been called a "pendejo," an idiot. Tillman, in the absurd belief that he was defending or serving his all-powerful country from a seventh-rate, Third World nation devastated by the previous conflicts it had endured, decided to give up a comfortable life to place himself in a combat situation that cost him his life. This was not "Ramon or Tyrone," who joined the military out of financial necessity, or to have a chance at education. This was a "G.I. Joe" guy who got what was coming to him. That was not heroism, it was prophetic idiocy.

Tillman, probably acting out his nationalist-patriotic fantasies forged in years of exposure to Clint Eastwood and Rambo movies, decided to insert himself into a conflict he didn't need to insert himself into. It wasn't like he was defending the East coast from an invasion of a foreign power. THAT would have been heroic and laudable. What he did was make himself useful to a foreign invading army, and he paid for it. It's hard to say I have any sympathy for his death because I don't feel like his "service" was necessary. He wasn't defending me, nor was he defending the Afghani people. He was acting out his macho, patriotic crap and I guess someone with a bigger gun did him in.

Perhaps it's the old, dreamy American thought process that forces them to put sports greats and "larger than life" sacrificial lambs on the pedestal of heroism, no matter what they've done. After all, the American nation has no other role to play but to be the cheerleaders of the home team; a sad role to have to play during conflicts that suffer from severe legitimacy and credibility problems.

Matters are a little clearer for those living outside the American borders. Tillman got himself killed in a country other than his own without having been forced to go over to that country to kill its people. After all, whether we like them or not, the Taliban is more Afghani than we are. Their resistance is more legitimate than our invasion, regardless of the fact that our social values are probably more enlightened than theirs. For that, he shouldn't be hailed as a hero, he should be used as a poster boy for the dangerous consequences of too much "America is #1," frat boy, propaganda bull. It might just make a regular man irrationally drop $3.6 million to go fight in a conflict that was anything but "self-defense." The same could be said of the unusual belief of 50 percent of the American nation that thinks Saddam Hussein was behind Sept. 11. One must indeed stand in awe of the amazing success of the American propaganda machine. It works wonders.

Al-Qaeda won't be defeated in Afghanistan, even if we did kill all their operatives there. Only through careful and logical changing of the underlying conditions that allow for the ideology to foster will Al-Qaeda be defeated. Ask the Israelis if 50 years of blunt force have eradicated the Palestinian resistance. For that reason, Tillman's service, along with that of thousands of American soldiers, has been wrongly utilized. He did die in vain, because in the years to come, we will realize the irrationality of the War on Terror and the American reaction to Sept. 11. The sad part is that we won't realize it before we send more people like Pat Tillman over to their deaths.

Rene Gonzalez is a UMass graduate student.



---------------------

This guy must be swimming in fan mail!...from Al Qaeda... :crazy: :mad:

/karl
 

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Pardon me as I exercise MY freedom of speech...

That guy should be shot by Al Qaeda, not swimming in fan mail from them; then see what he has to say as he's foaming blood from his mouth.
 

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Ya, I doubt Jesus knew spanish slang, but I wanted to throw something out for the kiddies on the site to think about when they're posting about all the harm they would want to come to someone just for not sharing their opinions. You know, like terrorist organizations do.

I do think it's become awfully easy to be a hero these days.
 

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Here's my e-mail to Rene

Dear Rene,

I am neither going to call you names, nor flood you with poisonous words as you did in your article on account of Pat Tillman. What I however am going to do is to ask you few questions regarding your logic. So with that in mind, let’s start.

1. You ridicule Pat in sense, that he was not defending East coast from the terrorists. Well last I checked New York City is located on East coast, and as I remember on 9/11/2001 few thousand people died as a result of terrorist attack conducted by Al Qaeda operatives. So I would disagree with your obviously confused view there. Secondary I see that you attend school and live in New England which is also on East coast. Now let’s just imagine this scenario. Al Qaeda conducts another operation, says this time in Boston, and detonates a dirty bomb. Now think with me. Radioactive contamination would then blanket New England, and sadly YOU as you happily stroll to your morning classes happily chatting about how ridiculous this war on terror is. Far fetched you say? Well I say that attack by aircraft on Twin Towers was once far fetched laughable idea too. So you see, you are wrong in ridiculing Pat Tillman fighting in Afghanistan as not to protect his, and YOURS homeland. Let’s continue.
2. I admire your telepathic and Para psychological skills since your description of Pat Tillman’s thoughts and motivations are quite extensively described in you masterpiece. You say you do not have any of those abilities? Do you now see how shallow you are? Maybe you need to re-examine your motivations instead of trying to understand Pat Tillman’s. Why all that pent up resentment and anger? Maybe the term “pendejo” that you so quickly used on Pat Tillman is more fitting in describing you and your motivations.
3. Lastly, you confidently state that Pat Tillman joined because of misguided ideas based on Clint Eastwood or Sly Stalone’s movies, and was not “Ramon or Tyrone” who usually join to gain benefits or leg up on life. In whole that is also quite distorted view, but has some validity in it, so let’s discuss the underlying. Have you ever heard of Maslow’s Theory of Needs? Since you are a graduate student, I would be inclined to believe that you have. So you probably know that as person progresses upward through the layers of the pyramid, the need for raw survival diminishes, and the need to be charitable increases. The need to benefit society, and to steer society toward greater good becomes the main motivation. With Pat Tillman’s 3.6 million salary, I would be hard pressed to believe that he had problem with satisfying his basic needs and would be more inclined to believe that the motivation to do good was the main motivator. As a matter of fact, I would say that Pat Tillman had more developed sense of charity then you or me, and chose to follow his beliefs.

So in conclusion I would only say that Pat Tillman was a bigger man than you ever will be, and I only hope that the furor you unwittingly unleashed with your poisonous bile will make you stop and think of your shallowness. Then again, you may just be one of those dime a dozen wannabe revolutionaries who talk loudly and would discuss you to death, but when the time for action come, they do not have the balls to do anything about their beliefs. Have a nice day.

Sincerely,

Boris Kain
 

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Boris said:
Here's my e-mail to Rene

Dear Rene,

I am neither going to call you names, nor flood you with poisonous words as you did in your article on account of Pat Tillman. What I however am going to do is to ask you few questions regarding your logic. So with that in mind, let’s start.

1. You ridicule Pat in sense, that he was not defending East coast from the terrorists. Well last I checked New York City is located on East coast, and as I remember on 9/11/2001 few thousand people died as a result of terrorist attack conducted by Al Qaeda operatives. So I would disagree with your obviously confused view there. Secondary I see that you attend school and live in New England which is also on East coast. Now let’s just imagine this scenario. Al Qaeda conducts another operation, says this time in Boston, and detonates a dirty bomb. Now think with me. Radioactive contamination would then blanket New England, and sadly YOU as you happily stroll to your morning classes happily chatting about how ridiculous this war on terror is. Far fetched you say? Well I say that attack by aircraft on Twin Towers was once far fetched laughable idea too. So you see, you are wrong in ridiculing Pat Tillman fighting in Afghanistan as not to protect his, and YOURS homeland. Let’s continue.
2. I admire your telepathic and Para psychological skills since your description of Pat Tillman’s thoughts and motivations are quite extensively described in you masterpiece. You say you do not have any of those abilities? Do you now see how shallow you are? Maybe you need to re-examine your motivations instead of trying to understand Pat Tillman’s. Why all that pent up resentment and anger? Maybe the term “pendejo” that you so quickly used on Pat Tillman is more fitting in describing you and your motivations.
3. Lastly, you confidently state that Pat Tillman joined because of misguided ideas based on Clint Eastwood or Sly Stalone’s movies, and was not “Ramon or Tyrone” who usually join to gain benefits or leg up on life. In whole that is also quite distorted view, but has some validity in it, so let’s discuss the underlying. Have you ever heard of Maslow’s Theory of Needs? Since you are a graduate student, I would be inclined to believe that you have. So you probably know that as person progresses upward through the layers of the pyramid, the need for raw survival diminishes, and the need to be charitable increases. The need to benefit society, and to steer society toward greater good becomes the main motivation. With Pat Tillman’s 3.6 million salary, I would be hard pressed to believe that he had problem with satisfying his basic needs and would be more inclined to believe that the motivation to do good was the main motivator. As a matter of fact, I would say that Pat Tillman had more developed sense of charity then you or me, and chose to follow his beliefs.

So in conclusion I would only say that Pat Tillman was a bigger man than you ever will be, and I only hope that the furor you unwittingly unleashed with your poisonous bile will make you stop and think of your shallowness. Then again, you may just be one of those dime a dozen wannabe revolutionaries who talk loudly and would discuss you to death, but when the time for action come, they do not have the balls to do anything about their beliefs. Have a nice day.

Sincerely,

Boris Kain
:bow: You're da man, Boris.
 

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i have no words to say right now, this man can truly fall of the face of the earth. :puke: There are just some people in the world that dont deserve to be using our diminishing natural resources, and this ass crack is one of them. I find myself trying to formulate a thoughful retort, but i know it would go something like. F u you muther F'er and you can kiss My F'in ass eat S and die, you turd piece...u get the idea.
 

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This person has an opinion on how the war on terror is being run, and nobody will pay attention to them until they say something outrageous.

It's a cry for help; "pay attention to meeeee".

All in all, I doubt he/she gets laid much.
 

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Macabre said:
Ya, I doubt Jesus knew spanish slang, but I wanted to throw something out for the kiddies on the site to think about when they're posting about all the harm they would want to come to someone just for not sharing their opinions. You know, like terrorist organizations do.

I do think it's become awfully easy to be a hero these days.
Bravo mac... get ready for your death threats :wink:
 

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Reverend Arthur Dimmwit
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Freedom of speech means that you have the right to say something that pisses me off. Well he's exercising his right. :mad: This ass has no empathy. I'm sure he would feel differently if someone he loved died in the service of our country. In addition to the Pat Tillman slander, you know what really pisses me off about this article? It is when citizens of the United States talk about the United States as "them." This person considers himself a Puerto Rican and not an American. I guess he would still have his freedom to say whatever he wants if he were living under Castro's rule (making the assumption that if we didn't annex Puerto Rico that the Cubans would have). The United States is "WE" or "US" and not "Them."

I disagree with many of the policies and actions of our government. But you will never hear me badmouthing the United States as a third-party entity. That entity is composed of people like you and me. This Rene person should go to Europe or Asia and see if he isn't considered "an American." With a mouth like his, it wouldn't take a moment before he was being insulted in a language that he couldn't understand. Or go volunteer for humanitarian aid in Afghanistan and see if he isn't considered an American with a life expectancy of about a half an hour. Our country has made mistakes and our country has done some horrible things in this world but it is still our country and I love it and want to improve it. This is the best place in the world. I bet you don't see too many foreigners trying to immigrate to Afghanistan.

In closing, I think it is stupid when U.S. citizens refer to the United States as "them" when them is us.
 

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As one of the online comments had, a quote from Tony Blair.

"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at.....how many want in.......and how many want to get out."

get the f out Rene you're not wanted.
 

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Carlos Spicyweiner
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VAB5 said:
This person has an opinion on how the war on terror is being run, and nobody will pay attention to them until they say something outrageous.

It's a cry for help; "pay attention to meeeee".

All in all, I doubt he/she gets laid much.
Agree!

It sounds like a few people on this forum actually. This is what happens when you get beat up as a school kid due to lack of social skills. Really, listen to what he says about Tillmans physical features.

I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face
Now he's an adult and realizes he doesn't have to live in the real world and can just write. Since his self esteem is so low, he tends to put people down. It's all he can do for himself.

DAMN....I should of been a shrink!
 
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