Volkswagen Passat Forum banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Passat 1.8T 2000. I have several tubes, covers, a heat shield laying on the ground right now trying to get to something I can clean. I was dumb and was trying to paint my front grill badge with the grill still on. Even though I taped everything up and stuffed the holes in between the badge itself, I was running late and started it while it was still wet, I later learned my spray can was defective and wasn't spraying out a mist but spraying out thicker drops and it was running). Anyways I started the car and it immediately choked and the engine shut off. I started it again and gave it gas and it passed and I was able to drive it all night making deliveries. Next day, today, it has this really rough idle, more rough the lower the RPMs. The engine light is blinking on and off and according to the manual that means power restrictions as a precaution so I don't eff it up any further.

Now to the part referenced by the title, as I was digging theres this air tube that is completely degraded. Will post pictures after this post. The location is right side of the engine, lower than the coolant resivoir, below the (aluminum?) air intake. It has a bunch of oil crust and rubber crumbs and the angle it down towards the engine so I can only imagine where the choke point is that I'm trying to clean that. Not only that I don't have time to order in a new part so hopefully the stealership has one or I can yank one off from a junkyard car.

Codes:
P0102 lack of airflow something something
P1128 missing definition for something
P0301 cylinder 1 misfire - I replaced all of the spark plugs with copper ones 2000 miles ago. I opened up all of them today and they again have oil in them.

MAF I think is good. 02 Sensors I think one of both are done. 14 mpg right now city driving. 19 mpg highway.
 

· Moderator/Administrator
Joined
·
26,115 Posts
That is the crankcase breather elbow/dogleg. You'll want to replace the whole PCV assembly (and clean the metal piping for it) to do it right.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-vw-crankcase-breather-hose-kit-b5-a4-passat-058103213k
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-volkswagen-vw-pcv-valve-hamburg-technic-035103245a

Diagram of your PCV system
Text White Diagram Line Line art


Oil in the plug wells is indicative of a valve cover gasket leak. Most likely caused by build up that blocks the PCV pipes or a bad bleeder (PCV) valve that lets boost pressure into the crankcase system. Do this last, or you will be doing it again.
(Just valve cover gasket) https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volkswagen-engine-valve-cover-gasket-set-058198025a
-OR-
(Complete upper engine gasket kit) https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/au...t-kit-a4-quattro-passat-elring-078198025#desc

Codes explained below. All can pop up due to a vacuum leak. Fix the PCV system first and then see what codes, if any, pop up after.
16486/P0102/000258 - Ross-Tech Wiki
17536/P1128/004392 - Ross-Tech Wiki
16685/P0301/000769 - Ross-Tech Wiki

Get the OEM plugs in on the next change. Copper plugs in the 1.8T only last about 10k miles at most. You'll spend the same amount on plugs at 40K intervals on OEM ones as you would replacing coppers at 10K intervals.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,022 Posts
VAGguy pretty much covered it but I'll just add that based on the diagram, the part you need is different than the one on later model 1.8t (AWM engines, 2001-2005) so you will probably need to find a 1998-2000 model (ATW engine) to get an exact replacement. Between that and the fact that these parts are a known early failure point, I wouldn't bother trying to find one in a junkyard and would just bite the bullet and get a new one. It's just plastic so it shouldn't be too expensive.

Also, just inside that hole is the inside of your engine. Be careful to not let any pieces of the broken part of anything get in there or those parts will get into the engine internals and cause further grief.
 

· Moderator/Administrator
Joined
·
26,115 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: cchief22

· Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
You guys are awesome. Thank you!

I've been doing some reading and I want to do away with the PCV system of how it is now. I'd rather do it the catch can way then having those oil fumes be blown back into my engine.

Also how can I clean the bottom of that crankcase? I put my hand in there as far as I could and there's a lot of plastic debris mixed with oil sticking to the bottom.
Also the crankcase breather blows air out right? Until I get a catch can shipped here would it make sense to connect a hose from the crankshaft hole and lead it to the ground? I pulled out all that degraded elbow hose and drove and the next day my hand got covered in oil as I was reaching down checking things out. So right now I have a vacuum hose taped in place because its too small feeding from that hole to the ground.
But what is causing the pressure? Is it the PCV valve?
Auto part Pipe Fuel line Engine Exhaust manifold

(Not my pic, I still have yet to see this part in my own engine past all the other vacuum tubes and getting the right angle)
If I reroute the crankshaft fumes to the ground, what do I do with the PCV valve? Does that pull air in? Is it blocked? What's causing the oil leak at the engine gasket?

Also side question: Is there anywhere near Seattle that is a parts store for European cars? I see a bunch of good looking A4's and Passat's in my area and I'm wondering if they're all ordering parts online and working in their garage or if there's some sort of B5 community I'm missing out on.

11:40pm - Side note - I want to do this: Text Diagram Technical drawing Machine Parallel


Also also I've had Emissions Workshop popping up since I bought the car. Could that be caused by a vacuum problem?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,022 Posts
Do you have emissions inspections where you live? If you do, you'd be better off in the long run just fixing the PCV system. It isn't that expensive and keeping it somewhat stock eliminates a lot of the reverse-engineering required to make sure all the various sensors, etc under the hood don't start throwing CEL's. If you really, really want to do a catch-can thing, I'd check the Audi forums (eg Audizine Forums). They tend to be a more performance oriented crowd and like to tinker/swap/modify anything and everything on their cars.

I would not be surprised if a vacuum leak like this could throw an emissions workshop code. It is obviously a pretty big air leak ;)

The oil leak at the engine gasket is often caused by a blocked PCV system. There will always be some positive pressure inside the crankcase while the engine is running and that pressure has to go somewhere. The PCV system is designed to channel that flow back into the intake or exhaust air streams. If the PCV is clogged, one common place for the pressure to be relieved is past the valve cover gasket. This can push oil past the gasket where you can see it seeping around the edge or into the plug holes.

AFAIK the PCV valve is basically a check valve and may be some sort of oil/gas separation device. I think the crankcase pressure can vary between positive and negative so the PCV valve only allows gas to pass out of the engine to prevent un-metered air from being sucked back into the engine, as un-metered air will throw of the fuel/air mixture.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'm a bit confused here. So the crankcase pressure varies?? It doesn't just constantly flow out of the engine? Also, does the metal hose portion of the PCV system that is connected to the pancake thing that connects to the air intake, does that air out out of the crankcase? Or does it just allow the crankcase positive pressure to go back into the air intake. Basically I'm asking what the pancake thing does.

And as for emissions I don't need it where I live.

Also is there a check valve that prevents the crankcase pressure to go negative? My oil is getting pushed up into my spark plugs and out of my engine gasket because crankcase pressure goes negative, right?

I've got some hose here, a copper turn pipe, jubilee clamps. Gonna see what I can do here with that haha. I'm stuck right now trying to get the metal hose out because the asshat previous owner put zipties everywhere for the wiring. Also trying to get the rest of that elbow out of the plastic part in the crankcase outlet. Wish me luck.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,022 Posts
Good luck! You might want to change the oil afterwards to capture any pieces that migrate down to the bottom of the oil pan, before they get sucked up onto the pickup tube screen.

Oil shouldn't be getting pushed past the spark plugs themselves. If the plug tips are covered in oil that is a different problem. I assumed you had oil in the plug holes (on the top) of the engine since oil seeping past the valve cover gasket can collect there.

The PCV system has a bunch of inlets, check valves and pipes. I don't claim to understand it all but in general the pressure inside the engine can vary and you want the gases to only go from the engine back into the intake.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'm not sure what your describing for the spark plugs. Plus it doesn't help I don't know all of the terminology. Basically when I open up the coil packs that whole area is oily. The plastic tube from the coil pac, the squishy plastic on the end of the coil pack tuby thing, and the tops of the spark plugs. Once I take the plug out the part that sparks is clean of oil.

I finally got the metal part out. Its very dirty. Trying to clean it right now. Pancake valve looks dirty too. I have no "T" piece. Probably fell out of my engine long ago. I picked up a brass "T" from Lowes yesterday.

Won't let me upload pics. There's this metal rubber elbow at the end of the metal hose and then it goes clamp, then start hose with a hole that's blown out on mine, then straight again to another clamp which then would go to the elbow that goes to the crankshaft hole. I'm thinking that was the T? I have another hose with a valve thing blown out but the valve part still works I think (if being able to push the plastic valve part in and out means its working).
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,022 Posts
Basically when I open up the coil packs that whole area is oily. The plastic tube from the coil pac, the squishy plastic on the end of the coil pack tuby thing, and the tops of the spark plugs. Once I take the plug out the part that sparks is clean of oil.
That's what I thought. The oil is probably seeping past the valve cover gasket into the holes where the spark plugs go. Common problem when the PCV system is plugged up.

VAGguy posted a picture in post #3 above of what your PCV system should look like. It is different on my cars since they are different year and the PCV system changed quite a bit over the years.

If you can push the plastic valve in that part is probably OK. Just clean it up with solvent or dish-washing soap and it should be good to go.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,364 Posts
since you have a turbo ,I'll try to make it straight forward,you start the engine .......there is vacuum created by the pistons drawing the air in ,as combustion oçcurs some exhaust pressure is created in the crankcase from blowby(combustion pressure passing by the rings)pistons going up and down, and which because of passages/drain holes, this pressure is also shared in the valve cover. This pressure is relieved by the vacuum created in the intake manifold ,this is your PCV system. Once it fails or becomes inefficient pressure is created, this pressure relieves itself by seeping by any gasketing and piping,thus pushing oil into the spark plug/ignition coil wells, the
coils eventually become saturated from heating and cooling submerged in oil causing failure/misfire codes. The engine's intake manifold draws these volatile gases from three areas; one the crankcase, which you have discovered(elbow pipe), the second ,the blow off valve (self regulating check valve) which relieves the pressure in the intake system when deceleration occurs,and the third, the valve cover. OK, now when power is needed the ECM signals the turbo which has been circulating air to now send that pressurized air (boost) to the intake manifold. This pressure now would also find its way to the crankcase except for a series of check valves, the main one being attached/inserted at the end of the elbow that you illustrate with a three way elbow rubber elbow. and thats how it works. Main thing is making sure nothing clogs now or in the future the oil pickup tube. Once cleaned up/out a little bit of attention will keep 'er on the road for awhile. I think this is all pretty close to exactly how it works and if not hopefully someone else can correct my understanding.....Chief
 

· Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So I did some temporary jerry rigging type stuff until the been parts ship in and now my car won't even start to even test my work. No power either so my windows are stuck down. When I turn the key I get this werid clicking behind the dashboard. It's not the starter not. When I was taking out the metal piece I had to move around a bunch of wireless harnessingg. What didn't I do? ?

I'm thinking maybe I knocked a ground connection loose? I have no idea and I'm getting satin by mosquitos until my ride gets here
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,022 Posts
slow is steady and steady is fast. Clicking is probably a bad circuit on the starter or solenoid. A bad ground is a likely suspect. I'd double check everything you touched or moved and clean and re-tighten anything that looks amiss. Good luck!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Thank you chief and Iowegian! You guys are great.

So from what I understand the pressure from the crankshaft is recirculating into the intake to balance that pressure out? So with my lack of a pcv elbow, I'm gonna be experiencing symptoms of low vacuum pressure? Right?

As for the battery we jumped it this morning and it started up and I got to roll my windows up!:) But right now its rough idling really bad and it turns on low power mode (blinking CEL). I even ripped out all of my jimmy solutions and brought it back to what it was when I found it (missing pcv elbow) and still rough idling like a b. This happened the other day and it eventually adjusted itself and ran smooth on its own. This car makes no sense...

Well anyways I have the new parts ordered so thank you Vagguy for the links! And the pcv valve goes from the T into the Suction Jet Pump area right? Just want to make sure I get the right part because my valve, the rubber housing to it is completely degraded so I'll definitely need a new one but it doesn't really look like the one that was linked. https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-volkswagen-vw-pcv-valve-hamburg-technic-035103245a

Edit: Just cleaned my valve part and the # is 035103245A which is the same as the link so awesome!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,022 Posts
A blinking CEL is often an indication that the car is running so rich that it can damage the catalytic converters. It may be something else too but I wouldn't drive it anymore than you have to until you get all the holes plugged up. A rough idle (with OK performance at higher throttle) is often caused by a vacuum leak. With the PCV in pieces you almost certainly have air/vacuum leaks.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,364 Posts
couple things ,first your battery is/was low/drained. Running but not charging, check the back of the alternator ,one main cable ,one small wire attached with connection bonnet ,wire might have pulled out of the bonnet...DISCONNECT negative terminal before doing and putzing around back there, cable has really thin insulation and although it has a corrugated cover in spots there are areas where it can easily wear through do to movement/vibration and short out, next you have a large vacuum leak with that pipe/hoses and tube missing ,that would cause a lot of engine woes. As a footnote, I mis-stepped mis-spoke in the previous explanation of your PCV system, a slight correction . When under BOOST because the PCV check valve closes,forced shut by positive boost pressure the gases (valve cover and crankcase) no longer can go to the intake manifold,but where do these crank and valvetrain gases go? instead they "backtrack" at the top of the valve cover thru the 3 way rubber elbow to the/a hardpipe (upper of the two,lower one is secondary air delivery) and all the way around and back into the turbo inlet pipe to mix with fresh air going through what is called a pressure control valve ,VW p/n 06A129101D. This valve is funky/goofy in its operation ,however nothing more than a sophisticated conditionally operated check valve. relatively cheap ,get one and clean the heck out of that tube using crystal drano and a rubber stopper. The vertical tube at the "tee" connection where the elbow (one in your picture) out of the crankcase meets also needs to be cleaned. If you have not done it, you are able to remove the 3 screws on coolant tank and swing it towards,and using a bungee attach to hoodlatch, that will give you a little more room, note,little not a lot. Last but not least clean/flush out the crank case ,pour some kerosene( 2 quarts) into "elbow" hole ,let set 5 min. ,open drain plug ,repeat then leave drain plug out all night. Do a forensic on flush and see what you got.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top