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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,
I'm back after replacing both downstream oxygen sensors. I used the universal OEM BOSCH. I followed the instructions and I'm sure I did not miss anything.
Before I go back and double check, I wanted to post the codes in case there is something else. Car runs great, very smooth, I'm not sure about gas mileage dropping, but I did not notice anything abnormal. I drive a lot to 2 jobs, so it's kinda hard to keep track. I used a cheap scanner and I did NOT disconnect the battery or use any other method to reset the ECU. I figured the OBD tool would take care of that. The CEL light came back on right away with 2 codes only. I reset it again and it did not come back on till it hit 68 mi. The monitors were ready around 50 mi and I took it for state inspection, but the stupid strut coil was broken as I posted in a different thread, so it failed.
I scanned it today and got these codes: P1110, P1105, P1114, P1140. According to this http://www.passatworld.com/forums/b5-information-base/150634-dtc-lookup-table.html
- 17518 P1110 O2 Sensor Heating Circ.,Bank2-Sensor2 Short to B+
- 17513 P1105 O2 Sensor Heating Circ.,Bank1-Sensor2 Short to B+
- 17522 P1114 Bank1-Sensor2 Internal Resistant too High
- 17548 P1140 Bank2-Sensor2 Internal Resistance too High

I connected both white to white (no polarity, right?), grey to gray and black to black using the connectors that came in the box. I did not solder. I followed this video along with the instructions on paper.

I would appreciate any input, thank you!


2000 Passat 2.8L, ATQ M/T. 162K ODO.
 

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I have this same exact problem now on my 98 GLS V6.
I too am using the universal Bosch sensor. It's been in for about 2 years now. And as it turns out the downstream drivers side is failing, AGAIN.

Once the codes are triggered they get stored. So you will need VCDS to actually clear the codes. Other software may work, but I only use VCDS and that's what I know.
Maybe others can chime in about other software working or not.

Once new o2 sensors are installed, a readiness test function should be performed.
This is a series of tests that are performed on the emission system and sets the OBDII to full readiness. Basically its a calibration of all the components that effect emissions.
The test takes about 20 minutes to perform.

The downstream sensors have no effect on performance or gas mileage. Their only function is to check to see that the upstream sensors are doing their job. So don't worry about any performance or MPG loss or the risk of doing any damage to the car.

As far as the connection goes, they say not to use solder on a wire because of connections issues. It even says that in the Bentley Manual for repairs on the electrical system. Personally I think a bunch of Butt connectors and what not are invitations to problems down the road. Soldering wires together is the right way to do things, in my opinion anyways. You just have to make sure you've got the proper solder and flux.

I have my own opinions of universal sensors. They claim they are the exact same sensor. However, when buying a sensor that is specific to the car, part numbers are listed as different between left and right downstream.
Personally, every universal one I have installed has had an issue within a few year period.

This next time around I will be installing the Bosch sensors, but they are the Genuine VW/Audi replacements.

Back in the earlier days (mid to late 2000's) there were problems with how much of the sensor was stuck into the exhaust stream or flow and spacers were used to pull the sensor out the flow a bit to compensate for a very tight tolerance of parameters the o2 sensor could operate within. Basically the original settings were so sensitive a CEL would come on just by looking at to hard. Spacers were used in the beginning to help with the problem. After that the metal shielding around the sensor itself was redesigned for different flow characteristics to make a more even sensor reading. And if I remember correctly, there was a recall on this particular issue. You take your car into the dealership and technicians would reprogram the OBDII with a new set parameters.

I don't remember what Passats in particular were effected by this anymore. I know there is a thread on that somewhere here in this forum. That I do know.

So in a nut-shell, I would just hook VCDS up to the car, clear the codes, do a readiness test and call it day. You should be good to go then.
 

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Based on the wire colors, it sure sounds like you connected the new sensors correctly, but the codes both indicate wiring issues.

I'd suggest you check the wire colors for the sensor verses the engine harness wire colors. The 2000 ATQ engine leads us to Bentley schematic 36/11;

Function /Sensor1 /Sensor2
B+ heater power/green-yellow/green-yellow (always +12 VDC with key on, wire 87a)
Switched heater power /brown-black /brown-black (ECM pulls this wire to ground to control heater)
Sensor/ blue /red
Sensor/ gray /violet

With the O2 sensor unplugged, you should measure a fairly low resistance across the heater in the sensor (less than 20 ohms, I suspect). The sensor heater wires are not polarity sensitive.

If you want to compare your upstream sensor heater resistance, those heater wires are green-yellow and red-white (for both banks).

The two "sensor" wires are shielded in the harness, per the schematic. They are polarity sensitive, but there's not indication of what that polarity is.
 

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My cars are 1.8t so I don't know if this helps or not.....but for them, the + voltage to the heater comes through the fuel pump relay and the - side of the heater is normally open but grounded by the ECM when heat is applied. Per Bentley, the + side should be > 11V when the car is running and the resistance of the 02 sensors is in the 10-20 ohm range (from memory but should be close).
 

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If the OP has VCDS, aren't the measuring blocks in there to measure all this stuff real time?
 

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As far as the connection goes, they say not to use solder on a wire because of connections issues. It even says that in the Bentley Manual for repairs on the electrical system. Personally I think a bunch of Butt connectors and what not are invitations to problems down the road. Soldering wires together is the right way to do things, in my opinion anyways. You just have to make sure you've got the proper solder and flux.
I've used these Bosch universal sensors before, and also wondered about soldering vs. the special butt connectors. I believe the concern was about the dissimilar metals (Tin, Lead, Antimony, or whatever) causing a thermocouple voltage that might make the sensor inaccurate. Maybe there is nothing to that theory, but I didn't solder the wires.

On a slight tangent to the subject: My 2.8 had a persistent, annoying buzz at about 1,500 RPM, which turned out to be one of the O2 sensors that had gotten loose (the vibration ruined it, so the fault code was a clue). So use the anti-seize and torque properly.
 

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I saw on another post on one of the 'other forums' that those wires are made of stainless steel. If that's the case, I can certainly understand why no soldering is noted.
Which brings up a point, in my mind anyways. Stainless steel just absolutely sucks for conductivity. Is that what we are dealing with here? Every time you place a connector in the run, it has potential for losing it's conductive properties.
Just a thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have this same exact problem now on my 98 GLS V6.
I too am using the universal Bosch sensor. It's been in for about 2 years now. And as it turns out the downstream drivers side is failing, AGAIN.

Once the codes are triggered they get stored. So you will need VCDS to actually clear the codes. Other software may work, but I only use VCDS and that's what I know.
Maybe others can chime in about other software working or not.

Once new o2 sensors are installed, a readiness test function should be performed.
This is a series of tests that are performed on the emission system and sets the OBDII to full readiness. Basically its a calibration of all the components that effect emissions.
The test takes about 20 minutes to perform.

The downstream sensors have no effect on performance or gas mileage. Their only function is to check to see that the upstream sensors are doing their job. So don't worry about any performance or MPG loss or the risk of doing any damage to the car.

As far as the connection goes, they say not to use solder on a wire because of connections issues. It even says that in the Bentley Manual for repairs on the electrical system. Personally I think a bunch of Butt connectors and what not are invitations to problems down the road. Soldering wires together is the right way to do things, in my opinion anyways. You just have to make sure you've got the proper solder and flux.

I have my own opinions of universal sensors. They claim they are the exact same sensor. However, when buying a sensor that is specific to the car, part numbers are listed as different between left and right downstream.
Personally, every universal one I have installed has had an issue within a few year period.

This next time around I will be installing the Bosch sensors, but they are the Genuine VW/Audi replacements.

Back in the earlier days (mid to late 2000's) there were problems with how much of the sensor was stuck into the exhaust stream or flow and spacers were used to pull the sensor out the flow a bit to compensate for a very tight tolerance of parameters the o2 sensor could operate within. Basically the original settings were so sensitive a CEL would come on just by looking at to hard. Spacers were used in the beginning to help with the problem. After that the metal shielding around the sensor itself was redesigned for different flow characteristics to make a more even sensor reading. And if I remember correctly, there was a recall on this particular issue. You take your car into the dealership and technicians would reprogram the OBDII with a new set parameters.

I don't remember what Passats in particular were effected by this anymore. I know there is a thread on that somewhere here in this forum. That I do know.

So in a nut-shell, I would just hook VCDS up to the car, clear the codes, do a readiness test and call it day. You should be good to go then.
Thank you the detailed answer, I appreciate you taking the time to share!
Is there another way to reset the ECU without the VCDS as I don't have one. I guess the basic OBD scanner doesn't do much. I tried disconnecting the battery and connected the cables for 20 seconds, which I read somewhere, but the CEL is back on after 20 mi.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Based on the wire colors, it sure sounds like you connected the new sensors correctly, but the codes both indicate wiring issues.

I'd suggest you check the wire colors for the sensor verses the engine harness wire colors. The 2000 ATQ engine leads us to Bentley schematic 36/11;

Function /Sensor1 /Sensor2
B+ heater power/green-yellow/green-yellow (always +12 VDC with key on, wire 87a)
Switched heater power /brown-black /brown-black (ECM pulls this wire to ground to control heater)
Sensor/ blue /red
Sensor/ gray /violet

With the O2 sensor unplugged, you should measure a fairly low resistance across the heater in the sensor. The sensor heater wires are not polarity sensitive.

If you want to compare your upstream sensor heater resistance, those heater wires are green-yellow and red-white (for both banks).

The two "sensor" wires are shielded in the harness, per the schematic. They are polarity sensitive, but there's not indication of what that polarity is.
Thank you for proving the info. I will check the wire colors and measure the resistance & voltage this Thursday, and post back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
My cars are 1.8t so I don't know if this helps or not.....but for them, the + voltage to the heater comes through the fuel pump relay and the - side of the heater is normally open but grounded by the ECM when heat is applied. Per Bentley, the + side should be > 11V when the car is running and the resistance of the 02 sensors is in the 10-20 ohm range (from memory but should be close).
Thank you. When I measure, I will post back the voltage and resistance and see if the numbers are correct.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I saw on another post on one of the 'other forums' that those wires are made of stainless steel. If that's the case, I can certainly understand why no soldering is noted.
Which brings up a point, in my mind anyways. Stainless steel just absolutely sucks for conductivity. Is that what we are dealing with here? Every time you place a connector in the run, it has potential for losing it's conductive properties.
Just a thought.
Thanks again.
Bosch being OEM tempted me to just go with the universal sensors as I don't really mind doing some extra work. I almost soldered them as I don't trust those connectors, but I didn't want to go against the instructions and not know what's causing what.
Being made of stainless steel makes me stay away farther from soldering.
 

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VCDS Lite can be downloaded for free from here Ross-Tech: VCDS-Lite: Download
Then all you need is a third party cable. Many people buy them from eBay. Unfortunately I don't know which one(s) work with the VCDS (as I have the VCDS HEX-CAN interface).
Hopefully somebody with the knowledge of what other cables work will chime in. But in short you'll need VCDS to clear the codes.

I know you haven't ultimately received the answer you're looking for, but this thread is going down a path that I would like to see others chime in and give their .02 cents worth.
I've done hours of searching tonight on the web and I have found multiple threads from multiple forums that all have at least a few concerns of whether the generic sensors are worth the while.
Not saying you wasted your money, but there does seem to be common consensus with these things. Those are, connection issues, codes popping up and the general lack of longevity of the sensors themselves.

I even found some obscure bulletin about the Bosch sensors in the early 2000's they had a problem with the ceramic shielding that held the sensor itself, would micro fracture from excessive moisture in the exhaust system upon start-up.
Hence a redesign of the sensor portion that protruded into the exhaust stream and revised heating signal to the sensor to stave off the moisture.

The thing that I find personally disturbing, of all the O2 sensors I have purchased over the years, I have yet to find a replacement O2 sensor last as long as the original ones installed at the factory. Just my personal bad luck? Maybe.

As I stated before, I have the same problem with my drivers side downstream sensor. In the next couple of days I have to get mine changed out so I can get my registration renewed.
I'll scan and post up my current DTC's tomorrow.
 

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I second Andreas motion--what are other folks experiences?

The codes the OP is seeing both sound like wiring issues, yet it sounds like he did it all right. A few emissions codes won't clear themselves, but these really should.

My own experience was buying sensors specific for the Passat, connectors already attached. We just plugged them in and they worked.
(That was my 2004 V6 wagon... 6 months later my son crashed it, two airbags deployed, end of the line. Sigh...)
 

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Now with FrscoGreen01.5 on board, it would be nice to what others have to say.
To the OP, I think ultimately this will lead you to the answer you are looking for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I will look into the VCDS, which I might need for other issues in the future. Thank you for providing the link.
I can see how the excessive moisture could cause all kinds of problems as the connectors junction is not sealed 100%. It actually falls right below the exhaust shield. I don't know why they did not make it so that you cut it close to the connectors in the engine bay so that you can do troubleshooting without having to remove the sensors! I know I could have cut it that way but I wanted to follow the instructions as laid out. I usually stay away from universal sensors as I remember having an issue with a corolla I used to own, but it wasn't OEM that's why it did not work until I bought the original, plugged it in without cutting anything and the CEL went away without even resetting it. I would have gone and bought the uncut sensors and be done with it, but I'm curious to know what's causing them to malfunction knowing they are OEM. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this.
 

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To the OP

Finally was able to scan my car.
Here it is.

If you look at the first set of codes #16544 I have a P0160 - bad sensor activity (it's actually flaky, sometimes it works most of the time it doesn't.

Also look at the Readiness Code 0000:0000

Those should all be numbers 1's

This is why you need VCDS. Only VCDS can take care these issues properly. Like I mentioned before VCDS-Lite can be had for free by downloading. And it's a reputable download. Not a cut-throat company.
Then all you need is a cheap interface to connect the computer to the car.



Chassis Type: 3B - VW Passat B5 (1997 > 2005)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 35 36 37 46 47 55 56 57 58 75 76 77


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 078-907-551-AHA.lbl
Part No: 4D0 907 551 AH
Component: 2.8L V6/5V MOTR HS D01
Coding: 06101
Shop #: WSC 02645
VCID: 6CD73EBF1C9AEA24D4-4AE8

2 Faults Found:
16825 - EVAP Emission Control Sys
P0441 - 35-10 - Incorrect Flow - Intermittent
16544 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B2 S2
P0160 - 35-10 - No Activity - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 1J0-909-60x-VW3.lbl
Part No: 1J0 909 607 B
Component: AIRBAG VW3 S V03
Coding: 00066
Shop #: WSC 05311
VCID: 2C57FEBFDC1A2A2494-4B1A

1 Fault Found:
00588 - Airbag Igniter; Driver Side (N95)
32-10 - Resistance Too High - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1J0-959-799.lbl
Part No: 1J0 959 799 K
Component: 0G Zentral-SG Komf.0002
Coding: 04096
Shop #: WSC 05311
VCID: 4683AC1762B6F07462-4B00

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1J1959801B
Component: 0G Tõrsteuerger. FS0022

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1J1959802C
Component: 0G Tõrsteuerger. BF0022

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1J4959811B
Component: 0G Tõrsteuerger. HL0022

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1J4959812B
Component: 0G Tõrsteuerger. HR0022

6 Faults Found:
00953 - Interior Light Time limit
25-10 - Unknown Switch Condition - Intermittent
00943 - Heated Exterior Mirror; Driver Side (Z4)
35-00 - -
01035 - Electric Window Thermal Protection Active; Passenger
35-10 - - - Intermittent
00944 - Heated Exterior Mirror; Passenger Side (Z5)
35-00 - -
00936 - Electric Window Switch in Front Passenger Door (E107).
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00936 - Electric Window Switch in Front Passenger Door (E107).
28-00 - Short to Plus


End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 05:26)--------------------------
 

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I don't know why they did not make it so that you cut it close to the connectors in the engine bay so that you can do troubleshooting without having to remove the sensors! I know I could have cut it that way but I wanted to follow the instructions as laid out. I usually stay away from universal sensors as I remember having an issue with a corolla I used to own, but it wasn't OEM that's why it did not work until I bought the original, plugged it in without cutting anything and the CEL went away without even resetting it. I would have gone and bought the uncut sensors and be done with it, but I'm curious to know what's causing them to malfunction knowing they are OEM. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this.

Don't make it sound as if you think your doing anything wrong or could have done it better. I don't think you are doing anything wrong. It's just that there is some uncertainty about about a few things that seems to elude us at the moment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thank you for sharing.
I just got the vag com cable today and I will be scanning it tonight and post the result.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Once new o2 sensors are installed, a readiness test function should be performed.
This is a series of tests that are performed on the emission system and sets the OBDII to full readiness. Basically its a calibration of all the components that effect emissions.
The test takes about 20 minutes to perform.
How do you perform the readiness test?
 

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How do you perform the readiness test?

I'll post up some instructions with a few screen shots tomorrow. In order to do this you will need VCDS or VCDS-Lite.
 
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