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Discussion Starter #1
I was watching speedvision the other day and they went to Noble factory...it was very interasting.

Noble tries to build as many parts as possible INHOUSE!!!! And they try to manufacture more and more as the time passes. This should be an example for all automakers.

I think thats one of the main problems with todays cars...too many parts outsourced. I honestly dont think there is too many parts even made in factories anymore. Its more of an assembling place then manufacturing one.

And if any of ever worked in Engineering you know how all that works....find vendors....get quotes....compare quality...and in most cases pic the cheapet one that works. :crazy: :suspicio: ...I ve seen it alot....at 4 different places I worked at, its sad. Some places want things to break!!! So you go back to them for parts.... :mad: :mad:

Anyways Noble is not the best looking car on the planet...and not the most advanced one either....however the performance is there and I would think build quality would also be there.

I think automakers should go back to the old ways....and start doing things they way they are suppose to be done....

I think in the end customers would end up with alot better, more reliable and more lasting cars...then the 5 year life....POS....crap they make these days. And I think we can all agree that Automakers dont want to do that.....for profit reasons. They want you to buy a new car every 5 years....

Fot those reasons I give Noble a big :thumbup: for setting a new trend!!!

Performance
Figures provided by Autocar magazine
0-60mph 3.5 sec
0-100mph 9.4
1/4mile 11.8
30-70mph (through gears) 3.2
60-0mph 2.9
Peak lateral grip (on road tyres) 1.156




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passaturbonium said:
I think thats one of the main problems with todays cars...too many parts outsourced.
:thumbup:

Several years ago, before the merger, Chrysler was looking for an underwriter/insurer in Brazil for one of their new truck plants. So they approached my company. I was assigned to go to Brazil and analyze the operation. I read the proposal as well as several tons of documentation about the truck plant.

Chrysler forced all their suppliers to work together and deliver pre-assembled modules, such as assembled/rolling chassis, as well as other "parts" in a timely manner. Make a long story short… It looked like Chrysler provided the building and assembly line… everyone supplier came in and screwed the various parts together. The end product was a Chrysler vehicle. :weirdo: :weirdo: :weirdo:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Elias said:
passaturbonium said:
I think thats one of the main problems with todays cars...too many parts outsourced.
:thumbup:

Several years ago, before the merger, Chrysler was looking for an underwriter/insurer in Brazil for one of their new truck plants. So they approached my company. I was assigned to go to Brazil and analyze the operation. I read the proposal as well as several tons of documentation about the truck plant.

Chrysler forced all their suppliers to work together and deliver pre-assembled modules, such as assembled/rolling chassis, as well as other "parts" in a timely manner. Make a long story short… It looked like Chrysler provided the building and assembly line… everyone supplier came in and screwed the various parts together. The end product was a Chrysler vehicle. :weirdo: :weirdo: :weirdo:
Thats every car company these days.... :mad: :mad: :mad:

Here is what Ive seen in few Engineering companies Ive worked at.

Outsourcing parts:
Find vendors, get quotes, test, compare.....calculate. In most cases company that makes the cheapest or one of the cheapest always gets the deal. Even though the quality of the part is garbage....and the company knows that....but they will be making profit on the part, everytime their customer needs replacements....no brainer. Thats the way of business....and thats what I hate.

There is a handful of companies that acctually want the best quality parts and are willing to pay top dollar. Those things benefit customer in the end and the company....because of the quality of the product.

Another sad example....I worked at a place that made robotic parts for factories. They bought these sensors from a vendor...for exactly $10 a piece. I knew the shipping and recieving guy at the place and seen him open these things all the time. All he did is open the part....put them on the shelf...and thats it. Guess what the company charged for those sensors? $115 dollars!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Ive never really experianced European wy of busness or their manufacturing techinques...but Im sure they are not any better.

Once one company started doing it.....all others had to follow...now its too late.

Again MAAAAAAAAAD props to Noble!!!

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Let look at reality here. Making EVERYTHING in house is not economically feasible. Even before you sell your first car, you'll need several million dollars in machinery. Then, are you gonna hire a handful of workers, for 40 hours a week, to make air ducts? And then another handful to machine wheel bolts/studs? You'll need to sell a Kia at the price of a BMW to break even. Then, you gotta hire another handful of workers to make parts for the cars you sold 15 years ago...and again, charge a leg and an arm for each part. See where this is going? Unless you're making kit car-like cars, where interior amenities are nonexistant, I doubt any company will have to funds to sponsor the manpower and machinery to make everything in-house.
 

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passaturbonium said:
Once one company started doing it.....all others had to follow...now its too late.
Again MAAAAAAAAAD props to Noble!!!
Nice to see there are those out there who recognize and understand craftsmanship. :D

And my top ten examples of those who don’t…

“I drive a Lexus”… yes you do, you and the thousands of others payed too much for a Toyota.

“I drive an Infinity”… yes you do, you and the thousands of others payed too much for a Nissan, if you say Datsun, it makes them angrier…

“I drive an Acura”… Nice Honda…

“My BMW 3 series is the best”… I wonder if he knows the automatic transmission is 7004R from GM.

“I have a Porsche Cayenne”… with a Japanese transfer case and GM harness… BTW, they have been recalled to replace broken transfer cases.

Back in the garage…my neighbor says…“Do you like my Jaguar… Im waiting for the tow truck…” Yes, it’s a pretty car, sorry to see it wont start again, I didn’t know Ford could build such a nice looking car though… good luck with it...

Then there are the Audi All-Roaders… It’s a crossover… yes… call it whatever you want… It’s still an overpriced A6 station wagon…

Do you like my Volvo S40, it’s a safe car… Yes your Mitsubishi Carisma will buckle like the rest of the them.

Bergen county Audi driver…”Do you like my A6… its got AWD and its an Audi and I paid 45k for it” No I don’t like it, I think its ugly and you could of gotten a Passat for 10 to 15k less…God forbid you drive something with a VW emblem.

My X…”Honey nice Audi, glad you got rid of that Volkswagen”… yes B- - - -, I couldn’t get the 6speed W8 with a black interior so I got another Volkswagen with an Audi emblem on it…Now get out… :mad:
 

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stealthx32 said:
Let look at reality here. Making EVERYTHING in house is not economically feasible. Even before you sell your first car, you'll need several million dollars in machinery. Then, are you gonna hire a handful of workers, for 40 hours a week, to make air ducts? And then another handful to machine wheel bolts/studs? You'll need to sell a Kia at the price of a BMW to break even. Then, you gotta hire another handful of workers to make parts for the cars you sold 15 years ago...and again, charge a leg and an arm for each part. See where this is going? Unless you're making kit car-like cars, where interior amenities are nonexistant, I doubt any company will have to funds to sponsor the manpower and machinery to make everything in-house.
agreed. There's nothing wrong with the concept of outsourcing. The flaw is that the current processes reward low cost and not high quality. Anyone in the software industry with any training at all will tell you that it's far more wothwhile to reuse an existing library than to write you own from the ground up. Anyone in the open source software world will tell you it's far better to combine efforts to come up with the best software to to x,y, or z than for everyone to duplicate each other's work. There's no reason manufacturing shouldn't be the same. The problem again is outsourced parts manufacturers are rewarded more heavily for price than for quality.
 

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passaturbonium said:
Lets not even get on the topic of CAD design....thats a whole another topic also....another reason why I think car industry sucks right now!!!

But many think that its the best time ever...I just dont see how.

That’s easy…

Hire a dipshit like Chris Bangle, have him design and build a turd on his lap top overnight. Then outfit it with as many useless gizmo’s (bling bling) as possible, apply minimal “real life” testing and send it through the assembly line… it will sell!

Deal with the problems later. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
 

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AJChenMPH said:
passaturbonium said:
Peak lateral grip (on road tyres) 1.156
Good grief, what kind of "road tyres" are they using? :shock:

Andy
The 1993 RX-7 R1 was able to get 1.0g on the stock 17" setup...not surprised that a car costing a LOT more with MUCH bigger meats could get it a little higher...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Elias said:
passaturbonium said:
Lets not even get on the topic of CAD design....thats a whole another topic also....another reason why I think car industry sucks right now!!!

But many think that its the best time ever...I just dont see how.

That’s easy…

Hire a dipshit like Chris Bangle, have him design and build a turd on his lap top overnight. Then outfit it with as many useless gizmo’s (bling bling) as possible, apply minimal “real life” testing and send it through the assembly line… it will sell!

Deal with the problems later. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
Well thats another one...

I was acctually refering to part design in general......differences between CAD systems and older ways of doing things.

Just to give you an idea...cars use to be made much stronger because we didnot have the tools (programs) we have today. So back in the day when they designed a part, they did stress analysys of the part to see how strong it is....they basically made the part alot more stronger then it needed to be. Sometimes the parts were 10x stronger heck even 100x then they needed to be which was a good thing....especially for those that modify.

In present Engineering days.....engineers can tell exactly where and what the weak points are. They only make the parts strong enough to withstand the force. They know exactly what the limits are.....but they dont make the part 10x stronger because they feel that they dont need to. They just want it good enough to withstand the pressure for the intended use. <<<which BTW is modifiers nightmare. Not to mension the cost savings on the specific part. :(

Thats just 1 poor example.....but you get the point. Everything is much weaker. You dont have to be a engineer or a rocket sciencetist to figure that out. We all see it.....everyday.

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Two quick points:

1) what is the sticker price on that Noble? There is a price to pay for such "boutique" manufacturing. Do you really want to see an $85,000 Camry? :roll:

2) Elias, don't you drive an A4? Nice overpriced Passat. :p
 

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Discussion Starter #15
jwil said:
Two quick points:

1) what is the sticker price on that Noble? There is a price to pay for such "boutique" manufacturing. Do you really want to see an $85,000 Camry? :roll:

2) Elias, don't you drive an A4? Nice overpriced Passat. :p
Acctually I think they just cut the price down to 50k....which is not bad at all.

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50k GBP. That's almost $90k in real money. I just looked up the MSRP from Noble on the M12, 48,505GBP to be exact.
 

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not mention the 2% price cuts all supliers agreed to. It makes them to search for a cheaper and cheaper vendors. nobody cares about the quality anymore..
I work for a supplier... we buy stuff for $90 and sell for $25 just to be in the business and fulfill the signed papers.... and my boss tells me find a way to cut costs on this, "well sir, if we would do it out of plastic it might be cheaper" :crazy:
 

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jwil said:
Elias, don't you drive an A4? Nice overpriced Passat. :p
Considering the price of the W8, my Audi badged VW came out just a few dineros cheaper than the Passat. Not worth the savings IMHO...

Now that Ron eliminated the governor :evil: I have to go out and spend the money I saved on a radar detector :nervous: My cell phone bill will go up as I now have to call him and ask where he went :cry:

I wonder if I can get a good deal on a S4 8) 8) 8)
 

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jwil said:
Two quick points:

1) what is the sticker price on that Noble? There is a price to pay for such "boutique" manufacturing. Do you really want to see an $85,000 Camry? :roll:

2) Elias, don't you drive an A4? Nice overpriced Passat. :p
My X…”Honey nice Audi, glad you got rid of that Volkswagen”… yes B- - - -, I couldn’t get the 6speed W8 with a black interior so I got another Volkswagen with an Audi emblem on it…Now get out…

Rapunzel, flip your golden hair out of your eyes.... :D
 

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what the hell kind of crazy tires they run on that one :???:
 
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