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Need Help with: Passat 2003 (V6) Codes P0011 & 17927

5K views 36 replies 7 participants last post by  Ellie 
#1 ·
Hi All:

Appreciate your help and recommendations please!

My car engine light came on this past Thursday and on Friday after scanning it, these were the codes: P0011 (Intake A camshaft position timing - over - advanced (bank 1) - confirmed) & 17927 (bank 1 camshaft adjustment malfunction intermittent).

My trusted mechanic, said that there might be sludge build up and recommended to add some solvent such as Marvel, please see attached. I did that, he cleared the code, but after 10 minutes driving the engine light came back on. Since, his shop is closed on weekend, I will call him on Monday to find our what he recommends.

In the meantime, I'm reaching our to you all (also my trusted advisers) for your guidance and recommendations.

My car runs just fine. Engine light is solid (not flashing). In the past two weeks, I had noticed when cranking the car in the morning, sometimes it starts very quickly, sometimes requires a few more cranking.

Greatly appreciate your help and recommendations with this. Is this something serious and expensive to fix?

Thanks so much,
Ellie

p.s. I've a business appt., tomorrow, which is 30 minutes away from my house. Is it safe to drive my car to the appt., and then back home?
 

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#4 ·
Hi All:

Appreciate your help and recommendations please!

My car engine light came on this past Thursday and on Friday after scanning it, these were the codes: P0011 (Intake A camshaft position timing - over - advanced (bank 1) - confirmed) & 17927 (bank 1 camshaft adjustment malfunction intermittent).

My trusted mechanic, said that there might be sludge build up and recommended to add some solvent such as Marvel, please see attached. I did that, he cleared the code, but after 10 minutes driving the engine light came back on. Since, his shop is closed on weekend, I will call him on Monday to find our what he recommends.

In the meantime, I'm reaching our to you all (also my trusted advisers) for your guidance and recommendations.

My car runs just fine. Engine light is solid (not flashing). In the past two weeks, I had noticed when cranking the car in the morning, sometimes it starts very quickly, sometimes requires a few more cranking.

Greatly appreciate your help and recommendations with this. Is this something serious and expensive to fix?

Thanks so much,
Ellie

p.s. I've a business appt., tomorrow, which is 30 minutes away from my house. Is it safe to drive my car to the appt., and then back home?
my car's info: Passat 2003, V6 engine, mileage 256,432
 
#5 ·
The sludge may be one of the culprits causing this but it won't be resolved by just using a bottle solvant.

Another serious candidates are a defective timing control solenoid or a bad camshaft position sensor.

If I were you I wouldn't drive the long hauls with this car. It would be better to get it fixed soon.
 
#6 ·
Sludge buildup isn’t too common on the V6, especially if the oil is changed regularly.
This is saying there is a problem with the cam timing, cam adjustment mechanism, or the sensor. I think you have changed the timing belt fairly recently, so the basic cam timing is probably OK. Most likely the chain adjuster(s), under the valve covers, is going bad, possibly due to a bad shoe.
If it were me, I would drive it (minimally) under this logic: bad chain adjustments are not likely to damage the engine. There is risk of shoe pieces clogging things, like oil passages, but the car has 256K miles and is worth about the value of the gas in the tank +- any remaining tire value. If it dies, it lived a noble life, loyally serving it’s master for many years, and it’s time to go into bargaining mode to find a deal on a close out 2019 model somewhere. If it lives, of course it is worth repairing and deferring a car payment as long as possible.
 
#8 ·
Sludge buildup isn’t too common on the V6, especially if the oil is changed regularly.
This is saying there is a problem with the cam timing, cam adjustment mechanism, or the sensor. I think you have changed the timing belt fairly recently, so the basic cam timing is probably OK. Most likely the chain adjuster(s), under the valve covers, is going bad, possibly due to a bad shoe.
If it were me, I would drive it (minimally) under this logic: bad chain adjustments are not likely to damage the engine. There is risk of shoe pieces clogging things, like oil passages, but the car has 256K miles and is worth about the value of the gas in the tank +- any remaining tire value. If it dies, it lived a noble life, loyally serving it’s master for many years, and it’s time to go into bargaining mode to find a deal on a close out 2019 model somewhere. If it lives, of course it is worth repairing and deferring a car payment as long as possible.
Thank you so much for this information, very helpful. My car runs beautifully and I've changed so many things in my car and hoping to keep it for as long as possible. My mechanic checked the timing belt and he said it is fine. My timing belt is due at 258K (my car is at 256K now), but plan to have it replaced soon. He said something about changing something under/near the timing belt and he said its less labor cost if he do them both the same the time. I will talk to him today to find out exactly what it is and will report back. I also asked him on Friday if this issue will impact my engine and he said no. Thank you again and I'll report back soon.
 
#9 ·
Has the oil been changed with synthetic all it's life? If it has, I would not hesitate to drive the car. If it has run regular oil, I would not drive it. I expect the cam chain tensioner (CCT) electric solenoid has failed. If regular oil has been used, it's possible the CCT pads have broken and that could lead to engine damage.
 
#10 ·
Thank you PZ. Yes, always synthetic oil. I talked to my mechanic this morning and he said that based on the detail finding on his scanner, I can drive the car, but taking my car to his shop on Thursday to get it checked out.

On a different note: I think it could be something electrical b/c my car runs beautifully. We live in the mountains and it has been a total nightmare to keep the damn mice away from my car. Even when I leave the hood up to let my engine to cool off when I get home from work. They often get into my car, poop all over my engine, try to build a nest under the hood, on the driver side underneath of the plastic cover that goes over the break fluid, battery, etc., With that said, could this be something electrical?
 
#11 ·
Yes, they could have eaten through the wiring to the CCT. I've had squirrels going into our engine compartments. They don't make nests, but they leave shredded acorns and poop on the engine. I did repair an Audi S4 for someone that had a mouse eat the wiring to a sensor at the intake.
 
#18 ·
I’d price for all the work. If all you have is P0171, the culprit is most likely a vacuum leak, which he could look for via a smoke test. If he finds vacuum is good, I would replace the oxygen sensors if they’re getting on in miles. Many change the MAF at this point, but with just one bank and no other symptoms I’m skeptical. If the code stays, I would do a quick check of fuel injectors on that side but then live with the code until something else appears to help pinpoint.
 
#19 ·
Thank you Hirnbeiss. Will share this info. w/ my mechanic. Attaching pics with the prices including the pic with vacuum hoses replacement. I am not sure if all the work that he has done was necessary to clear the P0011 code. He said the timing belt replacement with parts came to $900.00. Though, from the invoice it looks like he has charged me 1K for all the labor and additional $120.00 for the the C.V. Boot repair. Appreciate your insight about the pricing and all the work he has done to clear the P0011 code.
 

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#22 ·
There is a possibility of an air leak at the flexible intake hose between the airbox and throttle body or at the throttle body hard plastic tube. They have rubber gaskets that can bind when installed and cause a leak. It's this hose and the one it connects to at the top. If not them, there is an air leak somewhere and the mechanic should be able to find it. BTW, for all of the work done, the prices are great at your shop!
97629
 
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#23 ·
Thank you PZ, greatly appreciate it. And, yes, you are right on. He checked all the valves, cleaned the MAF, throttle body, checked every connectivity for air leak, etc. test drove my car, code went away. I'm grateful to him, to you and everyone on this forum who help me out with sound and great solutions/advises. You guys are simply the best!

I'm taking him a nice bottle of Pinot Noir as a gesture of my appreciation.
 
#27 ·
The last codes were P0491 & P049 and both were cleared (apparently, there was air leak some where, which he fixed). These codes came up (engine light too) a couple of days after the defective PCV was replaced.

While researching on Google, I came across this 'a faulty or clogged PCV valve may cause the engine to consume oil due to a lack pressure relief. This may eventually cause problems with the catalytic converter as well due to the car’s inability to expel the exhaust gases properly.'

The defective PCV was replaced within a day and I did not drive my car after I heard the noise, except driving to his shop.

Attached pictures are turning on my car 1st (see idle at 11 or 12) and then idle at 8 after car warmed up. I checked the exhaust when turned on the car this morning and air was coming out of the exhaust pipes and after the car warmed up the air was reduced (no smoke coming out of the exhaust at any points). I am worrying the defective PCV, which was replaced might have damaged something as I have noticed the oil level goes down pretty quickly,when I check it and this was not the case before.

Also, posting a pic on changed PCV.

Thank you.
 

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#26 ·
The 'burned valve' most likely refers to the actual intake and exhaust valves (total of five per cylinder) which, if eroded at the sealing surface, will leak. Not a concern for your engine in my opinion.

If you don't do so already, dump a container of Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner right at your next fill-up. At one time at least, it was the only additive that Audi recommended using. If your fuel injectors are original, and have accumulated gummy deposits, they might respond to the Techron. I've got 223,000 on my A4 and every so often use that.
 
#28 ·
The 'burned valve' most likely refers to the actual intake and exhaust valves (total of five per cylinder) which, if eroded at the sealing surface, will leak. Not a concern for your engine in my opinion.

If you don't do so already, dump a container of Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner right at your next fill-up. At one time at least, it was the only additive that Audi recommended using. If your fuel injectors are original, and have accumulated gummy deposits, they might respond to the Techron. I've got 223,000 on my A4 and every so often use that.
Thank you ylwagon! I took this advise, which you provided a while back and I do that. Also, my fuel injector was replaced 3 years ago.
 
#29 ·
In the past two weeks, I had noticed when cranking the car in the morning, sometimes it starts very quickly, sometimes requires a few more cranking.
I am guessing it has gotten colder in the last two weeks?
Does it have a harder time starting the colder it gets?

ECT sensor is a good starting place, and only a $10 part.
 
#30 ·
If you still have the engine codes coming back, I expect you have a small vacuum leak in the SAIP system This would be a thin hard plastic line in your last 2 pictures. It's running along the electrical harness at the back of the intake manifold (just in front of the new blue hoses), then under the coolant tank to a large round silver valve (combi valve) on the back of the engine. The other side goes to a matching valve under the plastic flex tube to the intake.
Here is a pic of where it attached to the T, has a short rubber hose and then the plastic hose. From there is goes to each combi valve:
97714


The plastic then connects to a rubber line again right before the valves. Then can be reached with the plastic covers and intake hose off the engine. Here is a pic of both valves from the back of the engine:
97715

97716
 
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#34 ·
If you still have the engine codes coming back, I expect you have a small vacuum leak in the SAIP system This would be a thin hard plastic line in your last 2 pictures. It's running along the electrical harness at the back of the intake manifold (just in front of the new blue hoses), then under the coolant tank to a large round silver valve (combi valve) on the back of the engine. The other side goes to a matching valve under the plastic flex tube to the intake.
Here is a pic of where it attached to the T, has a short rubber hose and then the plastic hose. From there is goes to each combi valve:
View attachment 97714

The plastic then connects to a rubber line again right before the valves. Then can be reached with the plastic covers and intake hose off the engine. Here is a pic of both valves from the back of the engine:
View attachment 97715
View attachment 97716
Thank you PZ. Took screenshot of your post and will show it to my mechanic.
I'll provide update afterward. My worry is about my engine running high at the intersection waiting for the light to change. Otherwise, car is running just fine.
 
#31 ·
Don’t worry as long as it runs smoothly and you have no check engine light. I can’t find anything written for VW, but on MB’s of the same generation, the cold idle is faster in order to warm up the catalytic converter sooner. I am positive that Audi engineers would talk occasionally with MB engineers.

You can see here that many Passateer’s who have gone before you have noticed the same thing:
 
#33 ·
That's good to know. No problem with starting the car in the morning and now I better understand how the idle works. The engine feels running high when stopped at the intersection waiting for the light to change. Also have noticed the oil consumption have gone up. So, that's why I got worried.
 
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