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Discussion Starter #1
Off the top of my head i was thinking of cars that broke ground and changed the way things were done from say roughly 1980+

Off the top of my head i would say in no particular order
Buick Grand National, GMC Typhoon/Syclone, the ZR1 Corvette, Dodge Viper, Mazda FD RX7, Toyota Supra, 4th Gen F-body
and i am sure there are many more so lets talk about em
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (Z28Driver)

The Miata! Reformed what was meant by roadster.
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (stealthx32)

Oh good one i didnt even think of that one
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (Z28Driver)

How about the GTIs? They started the performance import scene back when I was -3 yrs. old...
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (Z28Driver)

Well, my list is much different than yours. Here are a few of the cars that I would say are standouts and represent significant acheivements as performance cars since the 80's, assuming stock, production car criteria:

1. Porsche 959 - one of the most technologically advanced super car ever produced. Many technologies directly transferred and used in perfomance cars today...15+ years later! 198+ mph, 0 - 60 in 3.6 seconds! Need I say more...arguably car of the century!
2. Porsche 911 - the definition of a purist sports car.
3. Ferrari Testarossa - 12 cylinders, exotic looks, sweet sound that is a virtual trademark, what more could you want?
4. Lamborghini Countach - 200 mph, 4 valves per cylinder, the definition of exotic sports car.
5. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 - super car performance at a bargain price.
6. Acura NSX (ealry 90's) - Aluminum, lightweight, exotic looks, incredible performance. Japan's first and arguably only major threat to the European exotics/super cars.
7. Nissan 300ZX (Twin Turbo) - the start of the "affordable super cars" in the early 90's, great handling and performance.
8. Porsche 944 Turbo S (1988 - 1989) - only 4 cylinders, performance to match some of the best cars in the world...even today. The most under-rated car of all time?
9. Dodge Viper - the return of American muscle and the first real successful American exotic.
10. Mazda RX-7 (93 - 95) - Proved how good a rotary engine can be. Lightweight. Extraordinary performance at a real world price.
11. BMW M3/M5 - the original sports sedans...and still paving the way.




<![CDATA[Well, my list is much different than yours. Here are a few of the cars that I would say are standouts and represent significant acheivements as performance cars since the 80's, assuming stock, production car criteria:

1. Porsche 959 - one of the most technologically advanced super car ever produced. Many technologies directly transferred and used in perfomance cars today...15+ years later! 198+ mph, 0 - 60 in 3.6 seconds! Need I say more...arguably car of the century!
2. Porsche 911 - the definition of a purist sports car.
3. Ferrari Testarossa - 12 cylinders, exotic looks, sweet sound that is a virtual trademark, what more could you want?
4. Lamborghini Countach - 200 mph, 4 valves per cylinder, the definition of exotic sports car.
5. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 - super car performance at a bargain price.
6. Acura NSX (ealry 90's) - Aluminum, lightweight, exotic looks, incredible performance. Japan's first and arguably only major threat to the European exotics/super cars.
7. Nissan 300ZX (Twin Turbo) - the start of the "affordable super cars" in the early 90's, great handling and performance.
8. Porsche 944 Turbo S (1988 - 1989) - only 4 cylinders, performance to match some of the best cars in the world...even today. The most under-rated car of all time?
9. Dodge Viper - the return of American muscle and the first real successful American exotic.
10. Mazda RX-7 (93 - 95) - Proved how good a rotary engine can be. Lightweight. Extraordinary performance at a real world price.
11. BMW M3/M5 - the original sports sedans...and still paving the way.




[Modified by J-RAD, 10:38 PM 7/17/2002]
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (J-RAD)

list is different...yes wrong...absolutely not...i mean we all have our reasons for them being stand outs and i was just curious as to what people think i agree with all of your picks btw
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (Z28Driver)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>list is different...yes wrong...absolutely not...i mean we all have our reasons for them being stand outs and i was just curious as to what people think i agree with all of your picks btw<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did not mean to imply that your list was "wrong". I apologize if that's the way it came off. I was merely noticing that there was a significant difference in most the vehicles we selected. Although, I guess I don't consider the Miata a performance car. As was mentioned ealier, however, it certainly was significant as it did signify the return of the roadster. However, it has never been an impressive performer in it's stock form.


<![CDATA[<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>list is different...yes wrong...absolutely not...i mean we all have our reasons for them being stand outs and i was just curious as to what people think i agree with all of your picks btw<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did not mean to imply that your list was "wrong". I apologize if that's the way it came off. I was merely noticing that there was a significant difference in most the vehicles we selected. Although, I guess I don't consider the Miata a performance car. As was mentioned ealier, however, it certainly was significant as it did signify the return of the roadster. However, it has never been an impressive performer in it's stock form.


[Modified by J-RAD, 10:40 PM 7/17/2002]
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (J-RAD)

oh no not at all i thought you felt you meant that you didnt know if you were responding correctly and i was just saying that i feel that we all have different viewpoints on this and all are probably correct and interesting
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (J-RAD)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
10. Mazda RX-7 (93 - 95) - Proved how good a rotary engine can be. Lightweight. Extraordinary performance at a real world price.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Umm... do you remember te price of the RX back then? Close over $27,000 in 1993 and it skyrocketed up to close to $40,000 by the end of the run. not exactly cheap. Even used ones aren't cheap. 1993's with close to 100,000 miles on them are still above $10,000 and they will likely need major work soon. But a great car none the less. I love mine!

I vote for the Audi Quattro (the real name of the UrQ): First AWD street legal ralley car. Wond and kept the Pikes Peak record for many years...


[Modified by J-RAD, 10:38 PM 7/17/2002][/QUOTE]
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (J-RAD)

1. Porsche 959 - one of the most technologically advanced super car ever produced. Many technologies directly transferred and used in perfomance cars today...15+ years later! 198+ mph, 0 - 60 in 3.6 seconds! Need I say more...arguably car of the century!

///Agreed

2. Porsche 911 - the definition of a purist sports car.

///Yes but it did not change the way things were done.

3. Ferrari Testarossa - 12 cylinders, exotic looks, sweet sound that is a virtual trademark, what more could you want?

///As above, he is searching for cars that did make a significant contribution to the genre.

4. Lamborghini Countach - 200 mph, 4 valves per cylinder, the definition of exotic sports car.

///ok

5. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 - super car performance at a bargain price.

////only for the price. This car is one huge engine and a suspension, but nothing ground breaking.

6. Acura NSX (ealry 90's) - Aluminum, lightweight, exotic looks, incredible performance. Japan's first and arguably only major threat to the European exotics/super cars.

///the definition of ground breaking car, changed the way ferrari makes cars.

7. Nissan 300ZX (Twin Turbo) - the start of the "affordable super cars" in the early 90's, great handling and performance.

///ok

8. Porsche 944 Turbo S (1988 - 1989) - only 4 cylinders, performance to match some of the best cars in the world...even today. The most under-rated car of all time?

///A real nice car, but again did not change the industry.

9. Dodge Viper - the return of American muscle and the first real successful American exotic.

///All looks, not a standout in any category. Only reason it made big numbers was because of big engine/tires.

10. Mazda RX-7 (93 - 95) - Proved how good a rotary engine can be. Lightweight. Extraordinary performance at a real world price.

///Again not ground breaking.

11. BMW M3/M5 - the original sports sedans...and still paving the way.

///No way, Grand national was a better example of making a "sedan" coupe go fast.
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (Honda_to_VW)

By standouts, I'm thinking "benchmarks," cars that considerably advanced the state of automotive art. I apologize now - this list drifts from pure sports cars into sporting sedans.

Despite now mundane performance numbers, I think that it could be argued that the original normally aspirated Porsche 944 provided a vital benchmark. Hell, just based on "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery," the car is worthy - consider clones like the 2nd gen RX7, Laser/Daytona.... The car provided a balance of handling capability and livability that moved sports coupes higher.

A major standout: the Audi 5000CS Turbo Quattro - a benchmark in performance, technology, and design that dramatically influenced sedan design. It introduced technology into a class that soldered on with RWD designs dating from the 70s.

Despite the hatred for Lexus among enthusiasts, the initial LS400 was a performance bargain and a paradigm of refinement and reliability that dramatically influenced the way Mercedes and BMW designed and marketed their cars for the US market.

I totally agree about the Miata. I also think the Countach did more of the image of the exotic car than it did for the technology.

Tom
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (Honda_to_VW)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>2. Porsche 911 - the definition of a purist sports car.
///Yes but it did not change the way things were done.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You and I may have to agree to disagree on this one. Not change the way things were done? A few examples why the 911 is THE benchmark...
* Pure performance - there are 911's (including mine) that are 15 years old or better yet still perform at the highest levels, even by todays standards.
* Porsche brakes have been the benchmark from day 1. Any wonder why every wants to upgrade to the Porsche/Brembo Big Reds?
* All wheel drive introduced into a real sports car in 1989, although this can ultimately be attributed to the 959.
* Tiptronic invented and introduced in 1989


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>3. Ferrari Testarossa - 12 cylinders, exotic looks, sweet sound that is a virtual trademark, what more could you want?
///As above, he is searching for cars that did make a significant contribution to the genre.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know but the Testarossa seemed to be the car EVERYONE wanted...why do you think it's styling is one of the most popular influence on kit cars?


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>5. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 - super car performance at a bargain price.
////only for the price. This car is one huge engine and a suspension, but nothing
ground breaking.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never before has that level of perfomance been available at that price. You will see manufacturers having to up the ante as a result.


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>8. Porsche 944 Turbo S (1988 - 1989) - only 4 cylinders, performance to match some of the best cars in the world...even today. The most under-rated car of all time?
///A real nice car, but again did not change the industry.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, we may agree to disagree. The 1987 944 Turbo was the first car in the WORLD to offer dual front airbags. It had ABS. Turbos had 4 piston brakes...again brakes being a Porsche trademark. Handling that was second to none. Later 944's have the claim of being the largest 4 cylinder vehicles ever produced (by displacement) - 3.0 litres. Performance by every definition of the word. As is often mentioned, immitation is often the highest form of flattery. The 944 was the most immitated sports car of its time. Like I said, the most under-rated car of all time?


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>9. Dodge Viper - the return of American muscle and the first real successful American exotic.
///All looks, not a standout in any category. Only reason it made big numbers was because of big engine/tires.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Disagree and your statement seems to contradict itself. Nonetheless it was the first successful American exotic...that is groundbreaking.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>10. Mazda RX-7 (93 - 95) - Proved how good a rotary engine can be. Lightweight. Extraordinary performance at a real world price.
///Again not ground breaking.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This may be true and thought about not including the RX-7. However, it was the best performer of the "affordable super-cars" of the early 90's. It was a race car for the street and the only one to utilize a rotary engine. The main reason I left it on is was because it could perform with the best at half the price. When a car can perform at those levels and do so for much less, it requires the bar to be raised...just the Z06 will do. I think that makes it a standout.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>11. BMW M3/M5 - the original sports sedans...and still paving the way.
///No way, Grand national was a better example of making a "sedan" coupe go fast.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, the Grand National was fast but it's a coupe, not a sedan. But more importantly no one imitated it and I'm not sure what would be considered a standout on that vehicle other than it's 0 - 60 numbers. It was still American muscle. The M-cars define sports sedan...they were the originals (performance - both speed and handling - family haulers!)...they still lead the way.



<![CDATA[<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>2. Porsche 911 - the definition of a purist sports car.
///Yes but it did not change the way things were done.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You and I may have to agree to disagree on this one. Not change the way things were done? A few examples why the 911 is THE benchmark...
* Pure performance - there are 911's (including mine) that are 15 years old or better yet still perform at the highest levels, even by todays standards.
* Porsche brakes have been the benchmark from day 1. Any wonder why every wants to upgrade to the Porsche/Brembo Big Reds?
* All wheel drive introduced into a real sports car in 1989, although this can ultimately be attributed to the 959.
* Tiptronic invented and introduced in 1989


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>3. Ferrari Testarossa - 12 cylinders, exotic looks, sweet sound that is a virtual trademark, what more could you want?
///As above, he is searching for cars that did make a significant contribution to the genre.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know but the Testarossa seemed to be the car EVERYONE wanted...why do you think it's styling is one of the most popular influence on kit cars?


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>5. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 - super car performance at a bargain price.
////only for the price. This car is one huge engine and a suspension, but nothing
ground breaking.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never before has that level of perfomance been available at that price. You will see manufacturers having to up the ante as a result.


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>8. Porsche 944 Turbo S (1988 - 1989) - only 4 cylinders, performance to match some of the best cars in the world...even today. The most under-rated car of all time?
///A real nice car, but again did not change the industry.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, we may agree to disagree. The 1987 944 Turbo was the first car in the WORLD to offer dual front airbags. It had ABS. Turbos had 4 piston brakes...again brakes being a Porsche trademark. Handling that was second to none. Later 944's have the claim of being the largest 4 cylinder vehicles ever produced (by displacement) - 3.0 litres. Performance by every definition of the word. As is often mentioned, immitation is often the highest form of flattery. The 944 was the most immitated sports car of its time. Like I said, the most under-rated car of all time?


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>9. Dodge Viper - the return of American muscle and the first real successful American exotic.
///All looks, not a standout in any category. Only reason it made big numbers was because of big engine/tires.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Disagree and your statement seems to contradict itself. Nonetheless it was the first successful American exotic...that is groundbreaking.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>10. Mazda RX-7 (93 - 95) - Proved how good a rotary engine can be. Lightweight. Extraordinary performance at a real world price.
///Again not ground breaking.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This may be true and thought about not including the RX-7. However, it was the best performer of the "affordable super-cars" of the early 90's. It was a race car for the street and the only one to utilize a rotary engine. The main reason I left it on is was because it could perform with the best at half the price. When a car can perform at those levels and do so for much less, it requires the bar to be raised...just the Z06 will do. I think that makes it a standout.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>11. BMW M3/M5 - the original sports sedans...and still paving the way.
///No way, Grand national was a better example of making a "sedan" coupe go fast.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, the Grand National was fast but it's a coupe, not a sedan. But more importantly no one imitated it and I'm not sure what would be considered a standout on that vehicle other than it's 0 - 60 numbers. It was still American muscle. The M-cars define sports sedan...they were the originals (performance - b
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (J-RAD)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
* All wheel drive introduced into a real sports car in 1989, although this can ultimately be attributed to the 959
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Has everybody forgotten their automotive history? First real sportscars with AWD was the Audi Quattro (aka UrQ) and the Audi SportQuattro.
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (duandcc)

Sorry, Dave. The Audis were good cars to be sure and they have a lot going for them but I just don't really consider it a sports car...certainly not a high performance sports car.

I need to ammend that statement a little because the Sport Quattro was a little different cookie. To that, you are probably right and the Sport Quattro may deserve some credit. It was an incredible performer...it just never really got notority. After the Carrera 4 was introduced in 1989, the use of all wheel drive in sports cars became more common and, for a number of manufacturers, the goal.



<![CDATA[Sorry, Dave. The Audis were good cars to be sure and they have a lot going for them but I just don't really consider it a sports car...certainly not a high performance sports car.

I need to ammend that statement a little because the Sport Quattro was a little different cookie. To that, you are probably right and the Sport Quattro may deserve some credit. It was an incredible performer...it just never really got notority. After the Carrera 4 was introduced in 1989, the use of all wheel drive in sports cars became more common and, for a number of manufacturers, the goal.



[Modified by J-RAD, 9:19 AM 7/18/2002]
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (J-RAD)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Sorry, Dave. The Audis were good cars to be sure and they have a lot going for them but I just don't really consider it a sports car...certainly not a high performance sports car. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hate to say it, but you don't know enough about them if you believe that. They consistantly creamed the 911 & 959 in races back then. The SportQuattro is a 2-door, 2 seat coupe with an all aluminum 20 valve turbocharged/intercooled engine mated to the 'quattro' 4 wheel drive drivetrain. It loosely resembles the original quattro or ur-quattro,
but that is about all these cars have in common. Performace in 1981-1983 was:

Stock:
306 bhp at 6700 rpm and had a maximum torque is 2 46 lb-ft at 3700 rpm.
0-100 kph : 4.9 seconds
Top Speed : 155 mph
Fuel consumption at 75 mph was 22.5 mpg

With simple bolt on mods it could produce 500 HP and scoot to 100 kph in less than 4 seconds!

I don't know what your definition of a "real sportcar" is, but by almost every definition out there...this is one.

 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (duandcc)

Dave, see my ammended statement above. I mis-read your post and your mention of the Sport Quattro. It is a fine car and it's performance certainly does standout. The other Audi's, not so much. Now, you can't start talking bolt ons and stuff though because they are not stock items.

<![CDATA[Dave, see my ammended statement above. I mis-read your post and your mention of the Sport Quattro. It is a fine car and it's performance certainly does standout. The other Audi's, not so much. Now, you can't start talking bolt ons and stuff though because they are not stock items.

[Modified by J-RAD, 9:23 AM 7/18/2002]
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (duandcc)

P.S. Even the lowly UrQ creamed both the 911 & 959 in competition, even more so once the 20V UrQ (same drivetrain as the SportQuattro, just in the UrQ body) came out. In 1981 (first eyar of the UrQ) they were destroying every Posche out there on the tracks...even without bolt-on mods...

<![CDATA[P.S. Even the lowly UrQ creamed both the 911 & 959 in competition, even more so once the 20V UrQ (same drivetrain as the SportQuattro, just in the UrQ body) came out. In 1981 (first eyar of the UrQ) they were destroying every Posche out there on the tracks...even without bolt-on mods...

[Modified by duandcc, 9:27 AM 7/18/2002]
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (duandcc)

Now, Dave, first off the 911 was never designed to be a rally car. Second, only prototypes of the 959 were raced beginning in 1984. Porsche readily admits the cars weren't in development long enough for rally competition. The 961 (the competition 959) did not enter Group B until 1986. Third, why are you comparing race car results and performance to production cars (apples and oranges)? Forth, why are you even arguing, didn't you see my previous post?


<![CDATA[Now, Dave, first off the 911 was never designed to be a rally car. Second, only prototypes of the 959 were raced beginning in 1984. Porsche readily admits the cars weren't in development long enough for rally competition. The 961 (the competition 959) did not enter Group B until 1986. Third, why are you comparing race car results and performance to production cars (apples and oranges)? Forth, why are you even arguing, didn't you see my previous post?


[Modified by J-RAD, 9:40 AM 7/18/2002]
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (J-RAD)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Now, Dave, first off the 911 was never designed to be a rally car. Second, only prototypes of the 959 were raced beginning in 1984. Porsche readily admits the cars weren't in development long enough for rally competition. The 961 (the competition 959) did not enter Group B until 1986. Third, why are you comparing race car results and performance to production cars (apples and oranges)? Forth, why are you even arguing, didn't you see my previous post?



[Modified by J-RAD, 9:40 AM 7/18/2002]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not comparing race car results to production cars. I just mentioned the Rally point for S&G. Put a 20V UrQ or SportQuattro up against the AWD 911 or 959 and I'd put my money on the Audi (assuming all cars are factory stock). They had AWD long before Porsche and had it in a true production sportscar (thousands of UrQs were produiced, how many 959s were there?). BTW, I'm not arguing, just having a nice friendly debate.


<![CDATA[<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Now, Dave, first off the 911 was never designed to be a rally car. Second, only prototypes of the 959 were raced beginning in 1984. Porsche readily admits the cars weren't in development long enough for rally competition. The 961 (the competition 959) did not enter Group B until 1986. Third, why are you comparing race car results and performance to production cars (apples and oranges)? Forth, why are you even arguing, didn't you see my previous post?



[Modified by J-RAD, 9:40 AM 7/18/2002]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not comparing race car results to production cars. I just mentioned the Rally point for S&G. Put a 20V UrQ or SportQuattro up against the AWD 911 or 959 and I'd put my money on the Audi (assuming all cars are factory stock). They had AWD long before Porsche and had it in a true production sportscar (thousands of UrQs were produiced, how many 959s were there?). BTW, I'm not arguing, just having a nice friendly debate.


[Modified by duandcc, 10:11 AM 7/18/2002]
 

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Re: Name some of the Modern Day Performance Car Standouts (duandcc)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Put a 20V UrQ or SportQuattro up against the AWD 911 or 959 and I'd put my money on the Audi (assuming all cars are factory stock). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

C'mon, Dave. Don't be silly. It's a good thing we probably won't see that though, you'd very likely find yourself a very poor man.
...Besides, even I know that there were only 214 Quattro Sports ever produced...and I think only 164 for street use.
The "Ur Quattro" is a far cry from the Quattro Sport! Once again, though, I will state that the Quattro Sport was a heck of a car and very advanced for it's time.



<![CDATA[<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Put a 20V UrQ or SportQuattro up against the AWD 911 or 959 and I'd put my money on the Audi (assuming all cars are factory stock). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

C'mon, Dave. Don't be silly. It's a good thing we probably won't see that though, you'd very likely find yourself a very poor man.
...Besides, even I know that there were only 214 Quattro Sports ever produced...and I think only 164 for street use.
The "Ur Quattro" is a far cry from the Quattro Sport! Once again, though, I will state that the Quattro Sport was a heck of a car and very advanced for it's time.



[Modified by J-RAD, 10:30 AM 7/18/2002]
 
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