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I was doing my taxes this weekend and like most citizens, grudgingly will pay. I was also doing my annual FAFSA application for education loan for my daughter in college and found out that I'd be paying more interest for parent's loan next July 1, one of Bush's cost cutting items.

Then I read this:
Defense budget is $513 billion.
"That sum dwarfs the combined defense budgets of U.S. allies and potential U.S. enemies alike. Put another way, the U.S. defense budget is at least equal to, and by some estimates greater than, defense spending for the rest of the world".
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/12/MNG41H78RK1.DTL

And after learning about oil industries huge profit, I also read this:
"The federal government is on the verge of one of the biggest giveaways of oil and gas in American history, worth an estimated $7 billion over five years."
U.S. Has Royalty Plan to Give Windfall to Oil Companies

Is something wrong here? It seems like my family is being screwed left, right and in the middle. They take my taxes, use billions of it in an unjust war, squanders millions in Katrina aid, give billions to the oil industry, and take away the small help from my child's education.
 

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pamploner said:
Is something wrong here? It seems like my family is being screwed left, right and in the middle. They take my taxes, use billions of it in on porkbarrel projects, squanders billions in Katrina aid, give billions to welfare recipients (medicaid and welfare fraud), and take away my ability to invest my own money for a insignificant 2% return with Social Security.
.

There, I fixed it for you. :)

Like I have said before, send it back to the states. At least that way it could be decided and controlled at a closer level. Federal govt should only be involved in state v. state issues (federal courts), defense, and foreign policy. Send the rest back where it belongs. This is not a party issue, most federal politicians from both parties like big government. They just can't help themselves.
 

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pamploner said:
I was doing my taxes this weekend and like most citizens, grudgingly will pay. I was also doing my annual FAFSA application for education loan for my daughter in college and found out that I'd be paying more interest for parent's loan next July 1, one of Bush's cost cutting items.

Then I read this:
Defense budget is $513 billion.
"That sum dwarfs the combined defense budgets of U.S. allies and potential U.S. enemies alike. Put another way, the U.S. defense budget is at least equal to, and by some estimates greater than, defense spending for the rest of the world".
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/12/MNG41H78RK1.DTL

And after learning about oil industries huge profit, I also read this:
"The federal government is on the verge of one of the biggest giveaways of oil and gas in American history, worth an estimated $7 billion over five years."
U.S. Has Royalty Plan to Give Windfall to Oil Companies

Is something wrong here? It seems like my family is being screwed left, right and in the middle. They take my taxes, use billions of it in an unjust war, squanders millions in Katrina aid, give billions to the oil industry, and take away the small help from my child's education.
If you want to see "tax and spend", wait till a democrat gets in office...

Are you even aware of the amount your taxes have been cut since 8 years ago? I'd bet most people here are not.

I think voting day should be April 16.

I think more of us need to get behind the consumption tax legislation that's been proposed.

And yes, I agree with you that we need to cut the Hell out of spending. It is out of control.
 

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pamploner said:
Then I read this:
Defense budget is $513 billion.
"That sum dwarfs the combined defense budgets of U.S. allies and potential U.S. enemies alike. Put another way, the U.S. defense budget is at least equal to, and by some estimates greater than, defense spending for the rest of the world".
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/12/MNG41H78RK1.DTL
The best part is the $513 bil doesn't even include the funds to support the war Bush started in Iraq. We will spend another $150 bil (isn't defict spending great?) to make the world safe by jamming democracy down their throats. How much more will it cost when we decide to open another front and attack Iran? Anyone recall the fall of the Roman Empire?
 

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vwagen said:
If you want to see "tax and spend", wait till a democrat gets in office...
Except historically, the opposite is true. Oh well..

Are you even aware of the amount your taxes have been cut since 8 years ago? I'd bet most people here are not.
No, I'm not. How much have my taxes been cut? That's probably too complex a question. How much have your taxes been cut? How much less did you pay this year than you would have based on the FY1997 tax code adjusting for inflation/etc?

I only ask because I doubt (m)any Senators or tax lawyers could even tell you "how much taxes have been cut since 8 years ago" in a strictly factual way. That's the beauty of modern taxation in politics, it's so complicated that any argument could be made out of it.
 

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pamploner said:
I was doing my taxes this weekend and like most citizens, grudgingly will pay. I was also doing my annual FAFSA application for education loan for my daughter in college and found out that I'd be paying more interest for parent's loan next July 1, one of Bush's cost cutting items.

Then I read this:
Defense budget is $513 billion.
"That sum dwarfs the combined defense budgets of U.S. allies and potential U.S. enemies alike. Put another way, the U.S. defense budget is at least equal to, and by some estimates greater than, defense spending for the rest of the world".
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/12/MNG41H78RK1.DTL

And after learning about oil industries huge profit, I also read this:
"The federal government is on the verge of one of the biggest giveaways of oil and gas in American history, worth an estimated $7 billion over five years."
U.S. Has Royalty Plan to Give Windfall to Oil Companies

Is something wrong here? It seems like my family is being screwed left, right and in the middle. They take my taxes, use billions of it in an unjust war, squanders millions in Katrina aid, give billions to the oil industry, and take away the small help from my child's education.
DIdnt you hear Mr.Bush? They are trying to get away from using oil......in 20 years

:lol:

Mrs. Rice wants 75 mil for Iran too...to help them develop democracy. LMAO

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vwagen said:
If you want to see "tax and spend", wait till a democrat gets in office....
As if "borrow and spend" is any cooler. Neither party is for spending control.

What we are doing now is the same as someone opening up a credit account in their children's name so they can buy more stuff. That's just not cool. Sure all this spending keeps the voters happy, which is why we won't see any real spending restraint.
 

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Macabre said:
Except historically, the opposite is true. Oh well..
I'd be interested in seeing data on this.


Macabre said:
No, I'm not. How much have my taxes been cut? That's probably too complex a question. How much have your taxes been cut? How much less did you pay this year than you would have based on the FY1997 tax code adjusting for inflation/etc?

I only ask because I doubt (m)any Senators or tax lawyers could even tell you "how much taxes have been cut since 8 years ago" in a strictly factual way. That's the beauty of modern taxation in politics, it's so complicated that any argument could be made out of it.
1999 WITHHOLDING TABLES:

http://da.state.ks.us/ar/infocirc/Archive/ic99p015a.pdf


2006 WITHHOLDING TABLES:

http://da.state.ks.us/ar/infocirc/fy2006/ic06p017a.htm

For me, Married with 3 kids, income 70k, using the above tax formulas:

1999 withholding: $8,607.50

2006 withholding: $6,080.00

Difference of: $2,527.50 Annually.

Thats just withholding rates. My actual taxes have been lowered even more than that due to additional child credits, lowered FICA, lower taxable income used to calculate State income tax, and lowered capital gains taxes.

Maybe at home I'll plug my 2005 data into '99 Turbo tax.
 

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vwagen said:
I'd be interested in seeing data on this.
The study was posted around here not too long ago.. I searched but couldn't find it :p
1999 WITHHOLDING TABLES:
2006 WITHHOLDING TABLES:
What do withholding tables have to do with anything? I thought the point was the taxes you'd pay (which is obviously a FAR more complicated question, hence my comment above). That 2005 withholdings table for me is off of what I actually paid by about $1400. Not sure about 1999 since my income was different then, I don't know what I would have actually paid.

CTJ predicts that most families in your range are currently saving about $800/year, but of course that is just an average.
 

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Macabre said:
What do withholding tables have to do with anything? I thought the point was the taxes you'd pay (which is obviously a FAR more complicated question, hence my comment above). That 2005 withholdings table for me is off of what I actually paid by about $1400. Not sure about 1999 since my income was different then, I don't know what I would have actually paid.
The reduction in withholding tables fron 99 to 05 should match up very close to the reduction in actual paid tax during the same time period. Yes, obviously withholding is different than actual tax paid because it does not take into consideration deductions, credits, etc. specific to you. But in order to make a fair comparison of 99 and 05, you either have to include the same deductions, credits, etc. for both years, or take them out of the equation all together like I did by looking at withholding tables.

I'd agree that the current tax code is quite complicated, but the cuts themselves are not. They are simply a reduction in percentage for each bracket, as well as an adjustement (down) of the brackets. This is quite evident by a taking quick glance at the withholding tables for 99 and 05.

I'm curious if you have any thoughts are on the Fair Tax aka Consumption Tax. At first glance I support the idea although I admit I need to spend more time looking at it before I can decide for sure.
 

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While you are at it, take a look at how much you paid into two of the world's largest pyramid schemes - Social (in)security and medicare(less). If you think you are ever going to get back all you "contributed" at a rate of return that matches your own personal investments, then I have some swampland and bridges you may be interested in...

Why not look at the biggest drains on the federal budget - entitlements. The programs that have to be funded year in and year out. And a lot of the times when someone cries that their program is being cut, it is really that they are getting the same amount they got the previous yeara and just aren't getting the INCREASE they put in for. In other words, they ask for what they got last year plus 10%. When they get cut to the previous year plus 5% (or 0%), they go crying to the media that their budget was cut.

RBB
 

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vwagen said:
But in order to make a fair comparison of 99 and 05, you either have to include the same deductions, credits, etc. for both years, or take them out of the equation all together like I did by looking at withholding tables.
But the "deductions, credits, etc" changed between those years. That is why you cannot ignore them when comparing tax burden.

owr084 said:
Why not look at the biggest drains on the federal budget - entitlements.
The biggest drain on the federal budget is defense. Whether you think it's justified or not, that's the biggest item, period. All of the federal entitlement programs combined are a drop in the bucket compared to defense. In fact, defense spending is currently greater than all other spending combined by the federal government, and that's before emergency items like Iraq. So we talk about defense spending because there's so much of it. What you really mean is (and I don't disagree) "entitlements should be even smaller than they are now, because they're generally not productive." It'd be nice if all of the nations money problems would go away if you eliminated entitlement programs, but the fact of the matter is they are already a very small percentage of the federal budget.
 
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