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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good evening gentlemen,

After lots of digging, searches and googling around I finally took the courage to proceed this update on my car. Here are the details about the vehicle, the radio and of course the main goal:

1998/99 AEB 1.8T Sedan:


  • No Cruise Control, just the regular switch for turn signals & high/low beams.
  • Current stalk part number: 8L0953513G 01C
  • CCM part number: 1J0 959 799 H (coding 04096)
  • Illustration(s):




Current steering wheel:


  • Regular 4 Stroke Non-leather Steering Wheel w/ABS (non-MFSW).
  • Part Number: 3B0419091AE01C + 3B0880201BS4EC
  • Illustration:




Current Radio:


  • VW INF1-MID NLP Single Din
  • Part Number: 5U0035119F
  • Illustration(s):




Goal(s):

This radio actually supports remote cotrols from the steering wheel. This is clearly noted by it back connectors. Also, this radio is able to make phone calls. Not sure if that's important by now but it's something I'd like to keep in mind because I've seen that MFSW have the phone button. Not my priority by now, but it's something nice to remember.


Parts Needed (if my research is correct):


  • MFSW + Airbag - seriously considering buyng this set.
  • Clock Spring - looks like I don't need a new one because mine already has the 5th pin.
  • Relay 452 - sounds like the correct relay for my year model 1999. Seriously considering buying this set.
  • Wire harness - seriously considering buying this set but if you know where I could find it cheaper, PLEASE!


Questions so far:


  • 1) This upgrade requires that I replace the stalk by one with cruise control (CC), more specifically the 8L0 953 513 S? My car has a drive by cable setup and honestly I don't hit the road that often. That feature (cruise control) is not relevant to me. I'd like to keep my stalk if possible.
  • 2) Although I don't have the CC, I've checked that my clocksping yellow conector (aka T5b) actually has 5 pins. Does it mean that I won't need a new clockspring? Its part number is 1J0959653C and you can see an actual Picture of it here.
  • 3) There are several revisions regarding the 452 Relay: 1J0907487B, 1J0907487C, 1J0907487D, etc. Does it matter?
  • 4) Not worried about the setup by now. I gotta make sure that all the parts that I'll need are bought and shipped. Remember that I live in Brazil, so buying parts is kinda tricky around.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

THANKS!
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Huge important questions

Before spending any $$ on this, I have two single questions:

1) Once I put my hands on this....



...exactly where should I stick it on my relay plate? Click to enlarge.



Does it actually go into the relay plate or I just need to solder its bottom points to the corresponding wiring? :confused:

2) Suppose my plans go wrong....

...will I still be able to use this MFSW just as a regular steering wheel with functional horn & airbag?

My current clockspring is a 5 pin 1J0959653C and here is couple of pictures from it:

 

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Hi Vitor, you asked me to weigh on your process, and I am happy to help, but first you must answer one critical question. Seeing that you live in Rio de Janeiro, was your Passat made in Wolfsburg with the EU and NA Passats of that model year, or did yours get built in a Brazilian assembly plant? I am not supremely confident there is going to be synchronicity between your harness and relay chassis and that of the B5s in my neighborhood, and this observation is based on experience with Chinese made/assembled B5 Passats over the years.

Regarding the 452 relay, the revisions likely count. The signal processing evolved through the course of the B5/5.5 generations, sometime incrementally between model years, so you are best to source a 452 from a '99 chassis in Brazil for the best possible chance of success.

A 5-wire clock spring is all you should need to get MFSW functions for your model year Passat working.

I may have a cruise stalk and I know I have an MFSW wheel and controller pods in my shop. I may also have a 452 relay. I have many small bits left from when I have gone to junkyards over the years. I'll see what I have in inventory and can pull together.

:wrench:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Hi Vitor, you asked me to weigh on your process, and I am happy to help, but first you must answer one critical question. Seeing that you live in Rio de Janeiro, was your Passat made in Wolfsburg with the EU and NA Passats of that model year, or did yours get built in a Brazilian assembly plant? I am not supremely confident there is going to be synchronicity between your harness and relay chassis and that of the B5s in my neighborhood, and this observation is based on experience with Chinese made/assembled B5 Passats over the years.

Regarding the 452 relay, the revisions likely count. The signal processing evolved through the course of the B5/5.5 generations, sometime incrementally between model years, so you are best to source a 452 from a '99 chassis in Brazil for the best possible chance of success.

A 5-wire clock spring is all you should need to get MFSW functions for your model year Passat working.

I may have a cruise stalk and I know I have an MFSW wheel and controller pods in my shop. I may also have a 452 relay. I have many small bits left from when I have gone to junkyards over the years. I'll see what I have in inventory and can pull together.

:wrench:
Hello pal, thanks a lot for chiming in. Hope you can keep around among this journey!

Now, answering to your questions:

Hi Vitor, you asked me to weigh on your process, and I am happy to help, but first you must answer one critical question. Seeing that you live in Rio de Janeiro, was your Passat made in Wolfsburg with the EU and NA Passats of that model year, or did yours get built in a Brazilian assembly plant? I am not supremely confident there is going to be synchronicity between your harness and relay chassis and that of the B5s in my neighborhood, and this observation is based on experience with Chinese made/assembled B5 Passats over the years.
After decrypting my VIN, it showed that my car was built on 08.05.1998 on Emden, Germany and that it left the factory with "USA Premium Radio". The Passat was never built on Brazil.

Regarding the 452 relay, the revisions likely count. The signal processing evolved through the course of the B5/5.5 generations, sometime incrementally between model years, so you are best to source a 452 from a '99 chassis in Brazil for the best possible chance of success.
You see, there were no B5s sold here with the MFSW, only B5.5s. According to BR ETKA, this part number only started on 2001+ models. Also, when I look for 1J0907487B on 1stvwparts.com, the site says that this part number was updated to 1J0907487D. Honestly, I don't think this last letter would matter.



A 5-wire clock spring is all you should need to get MFSW functions for your model year Passat working.
SWEET! If that's correct then I can go ahead and buy the MFSW I mentioned above and even if that doesn't work for controlling the radio I still can get its aribag functional and the horn without replacing the stalk? Please note that the yellow plug from my pictures (T5b) has five spots for connection, but only four wires are actually in there!

I may have a cruise stalk and I know I have an MFSW wheel and controller pods in my shop. I may also have a 452 relay. I have many small bits left from when I have gone to junkyards over the years. I'll see what I have in inventory and can pull together.

:wrench:
That would be just perfect, but do I need the cruise stalk after all?! Unfortunately, due to BR Customs, I can be on serious trouble if I bring a steering wheel from overseas but the relay, the stalk and the harness (in case you have it) that connect the back of the radio to the steering wheel would be nice to buy from you.

And last but not least, where do I stick the 452 relay on the relay plate after all?

UPDATE

EDIT: If I'm following this, the question I made above is dumb. The 452 relay will attach right into the black connector from Kufatec harness:



After that, the other points will be routed to the clockspring, to the radio and for +12v and ground sources.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Nice, so far so good.

(V) The steering wheel is on its way;
(V) The wiring from Kufatec is payed for;
(V) The 452 realy was found really cheap on BR "ebay";
(X) Looking for the mini "din" connector so that I can wire the harness from Kufatec on the back of the radio.

Do I really need the cruise control 8L0 953 513 S stalk to do this? I really don't get it, if it's a drive by cable car, what would this stalk be for any relevance to the MFSW radio buttons?? :confused:
 

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I suppose you could just keep your OE turn signal stalk (with the OE cruise on/off resume/coast controls) and just disconnect it. The CC output signals from the MF steering wheel controls should interface with the harness connector (where OE Turn Signal stalk CC control was unplugged) on the 1998 model. Obviously, you may need to move some wires to accomplish this. (No, I've never needed to install a MFSW.)

After I bought my 2004 Passat and compared its steering wheel to the one on my 1999 Passat, I prefer the steering wheel on the earlier model. Once the new MFS wheel arrives you'll see what I mean. "Sidegrades"...they give you one big thing, steering wheel controls, while cheapening something else (the steering wheel itself) that most people won't notice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Hello people,

The MFSW arrived today. I'm still waiting for the relay plate, the wiring, the 452 relay and for a new plastic trim I'll try to replace while I'm there. I've got a bunch of questions because language sometimes become an issue for me. I tryed to collect all my doubts in one single PDF which I'm attaching to this post also as an image.

Any help would be really nice!



EDIT: PICS from the new MFSW (or didn't happen, LOL)




 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Almost there!!

Hello everyone! Today I almost finished one of the most challenging projects I`ve come across on this car.



This is what I've accomplished so far:



Well, I consider this almost perfect because I still want to make the phone switch work with it. All the radio buttons work perfectly, tough! From what I've seen, the relay I'm using 1J0907487B does NOT work with CAN enabled vehicles and since my car is NOT CAN ENABLED that would be perfect, BUT... this relay does not support the phone switch thing.

If my findings are correct, I need to get my hands on a 1J0907487A relay and then recode it to 00001 as suggested by VCDS Lite.



I've been googling around for this but there is no much information available on the web. Do you guys know if the 1J0907487A relay accepts coding 00001? I'm asking this because now I'm sure that 1J0907487B doesn't!

Also, any of you people actually has this relay installed so that could check if it accepts this kind of coding?

THANKS!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Congratulations! that was a nice upgrade. Nice car by the way.
Thanks! This is somehing that I always wanted to get in my car and finally took the courage to try.

BY NOW I'm stuck with the left switch buttons that should control the phone feature from my stereo. The headunit is an OEM VW part 5U0035119F which does NOT use CAN as the label simply won't mention them:



At first I considered that the 452 Relay 1J0907487B should be enough since that's an old 98 B5. Now that I finally put my hands I actually can control the radio volume and track through the right side buttons but can't get any response from the left buttons that should control the phone. By now I'm pretty sure that this 1J0907487B relay simply won't support this feature.

I've been digging more since my previous reply and from what I've seen it looks like that the 1J0907487A will handle the phone button on the but only if the relay is coded for CAN mode. This is bad news considering this car has no CAN GATEWAY.

These are the codings allowed for the 451 1J0907487A Relay:


  • 00008 Audio and CCS (CAN disabled mode, also this seems to be the only coding allowed for the 1J0907487B relay)
  • 00118 Audio and CCS (CAN enabled mode)
  • 00119 Audio, CCS & Phone (CAN enabled mode)

As you can see, if I want the 451 relay to handle the phone feature, I would need to recode it to 00119 which would not work on my car because it has no CAN and also because this radio is not meant to be used with CAN, just the regular remote control wire which is already plugged and working for the track/volume commands.

On the other hand, VCDS states that coding 00001 would be the one for me. Unfortunately I tryed to recode my 1J0907487B that way but it just refused that and from what I've seen that kind of coding is not allowed for the 1J0907487A relay.



What I just can't seem to understand is how the hell the MFSW knows that I'm pressing the phone switch and nothing happens. And there's more! According the VCDS measuring blocks, the CCS buttons are seen as a "Memo UP/DOWN" which would be just PERFECT in my case because my car has no CCS (Cruise Control System) and this way those buttons would work as memo stored stations selector.




:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

It feels like a dead and, ANY INPUT WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!

THANKS!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Sorry for bumping but I guess this may not be the end yet, so I decided to go deeper on that.

I've been digging and thanks to Google and to lots of VCDs logs out there, I was able to conclude that there's only one type of MFSW Relay that supports coding 00001, which is the magic one that would enable phone switch operation for non-CAN vehicles like mine:

Address 16: Steering wheel
Labels: 1J0-907-487-A.lbl
Part No: 3U0 907 487 A
Component: Lenkradelektronik 0002
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 73430
No fault code found.
So, this piece of log proves that the 3U0 907 487 A relay actually handles the 00001 coding.

Considering that this relay looks exactly like mine (all the bottom pins match their alignment with mine) and that the label from it is the same from mine (1J0-907-487-A.lbl), even if that's a Skoda part, I'll take my chances with it and will try to get my hands in one of these in a hope that both Rosstech baloon and my theory are correct.

As soon as I get this baby I'll update this thread.



 

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I know the proper functionality of the the phone mode and call buttons requires the telephone control unit, compatible phone, and full-FIS display dash.
It is designed to work to be able to switch between the phone book in your phone and the FIS displays for Nav/mileage/etc. in order to make calls.

I had researched this one out but keep going man, if you could dissect one of the phone modules and make it work with newer phones, you'd make people happy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Nice work. I'm actually doing the complete opposite. I have a '02 B5.5 4mo Tip that originally had a MFSW. I put an Audi Tip wheel in with SW shift buttons. I have the harness to interface the buttons into the TCU harness and the correct clockspring from a B5A4 TIP. I put a CC stalk from a 98 Passat that has the extra buttons (RES, SET/ACC) onto the steering column, but VCDS is now showing any input from the buttons, just CC ON/OFF. Going to try a different stalk this week and see if that is my problem. Maybe coding? Not exactly sure yet.

Keep at it. You'll eventually get it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well, it looks like I can't go any further with the 1J0907487B because this relay will only accept the 00008 coding which is not enough to make the phone button work. Believe me, tried recoding to each and every codings I could I find and it only accepts the 00008:



Considering this, after more research, I came across this thread where this dude seems to be getting all the OEM optional features available into his car. Along the thread they discuss this 1J0959537G switch and how it's rare to find among with its specific MFL relay 1J0907487A:



After a couple of days browsing on eBay I finally came across this ad with this exact relay. Destiny, maybe? :icon_eek:
As soon as the relay arrives I'll try to code it to 00001, 00008, 00009, 00018, 00019, 00108, 00109, 00118, 00119 until I can get the logics behind these codes and the behavior from my MFL switch.

So far, this is what's going on:

1. When I hit the RES+ switch on the MFSW, VCDS measuring blocks screen shows this:



2. When I hit the SET- switch on the MFSW, VCDS measuring blocks screen shows this:



3. When I hit the MODE switch on the MFSW, VCDS measuring blocks screen shows this:



4. When I hit the PHONE switch on the MFSW, VCDS measuring blocks screen shows this:



Considering these screens, the 452 relay actually sees which buttons I'm pressing. I just don't understand why it doesn't send these commands to the radio! :confused::banghead:


Anyway, I'll update this as soon as the new relay arrives. Fingers crossed...
 

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Nice work, I'm sure you'll figure it out. Here in the states, we can't get those neat single-din radios like your 1J0959799H...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Any updates to this project?
Nah.. I'm still waiting for that relay to arrive. It's stuck on BR customs so I believe it might take a month to arrive here :(

Tomvw said:
Does the radio module need to be coded for this function to operate ?
Which function? The phone thing? No coding neeeded for this nor for the volume/track button, the options available for coding this specific radio as I recall are only related to the number of speakers (2 or 4) and to the country (BR, US, EU). This radio model does NOT require CAN (actually it doesn't it even have a CAN plug connector on its back)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Chicken x Egg problem

Nice :(

Looks like I've got a Chicken x Egg thing going on.

The 451 arrived this week and today I tryed my theory of recoding it to different codes in order to get the phone button working. Well, it looks like that since this relay is already coded to work with a CAN car, VCDS simply won't find it through the regular K-Line. :banghead:

When I try to open this controller through VCDS, the software crashes and reports that the module was not found. :sleep:

Any suggestions? I'm wondering if it's possible to manually set it to work on non-CAN mode, even tryed to hardwire pins 1 and 3 from the relay together as these are CAN+ and CAN- but... NADA.

EDIT: Just for the fun of it, here is the inside of the 451 Relay in case anyone ever wonder

 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Maybe (...)

Well, well... After getting stuck with the unreachable 451 relay I decided to step back a little and get my thinking straight.

Key notes:

1) This radio DOES NOT have CAN, so the only way for it to receive commands through the MFSW has to be by the SWC pin (T20/11).
2) The 452 relay knows that I'm pressing phone related buttons from the left side of the wheel (the measuring blocks show that) but unfortunately won't send these signals out to the radio.
3) This radio is offered by the dealers on native brazilian cars from 2008+ that HAVE CAN, so how the hell a non-CAN radio works with these cars?

This is the answer:



On "entry level" VW cars from Brazil (like Gol, Saveiro, Fox, etc...), the dealers install this module whenever you ask for the MFSW upgrade, as an "extra feature" pack offered by the dealers. Digging around about this module 5U0907107A I found out that this is some type of CAN to LIN-BUS and MFD converter manufactured by VW.:crazy: It handles CAN+/CAN- and LIN-BUS signals and send them to the radio or to the MFD according to this pinout:



Unfortunately, this module receives CAN+/CAN- data regarding the panel ilumination, so it won't light up the buttons from the MFSW on a non-CAN car. In order to have both lighting and full control of the radio, I thought about this setup where all the comunication with the radio is made by the new module and the MFSW will talk with both brazilian black box and with the old 452 relay for illumination purposes only:



Tapping wires t16a/5 and t18c/18 should do it but you never know. For my luck, these modules are extremely cheap here (like US$ 20) and I'm hunting a second hand unit to try my theory. As soon as I test this I'll udpate this thread!
 
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