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i was wondering what is the max HP that the stock internals will hold up to. i have heard that 300 is the max but i would wonder why APR would sell a stage 3+ kit with 375? And i was wondering if people where having troubles runing the T28 kit from PES? Im sorry but i tried to search and got nothing. thanks for any info

Dee
 

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NYA VW said:
I've heard the same thing.. There was a guy pushing 400+ I can't remember his name. FEMI B5 had a PES kit and he was also in the high 300 I think. The torque converter or clutch is going to be your weak points as you increase the HP.
Femi pulled I believe around 275whp on 100octane chip program with PES T-28 and stock bottom end. Mind you he also has a tiptronic. The tip kills a lot of hp to the wheels, I think he could have pulled more with a manual tranny.

The MIV "gti/jetta' transverse motor setup w/ manual tranny for some reason seems to be able to put down much better numbers with similar turbo setups. I don't think this should be compaired since it is an entirely different design than the longitude motor.
 

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deeman911 said:
And i was wondering if people where having troubles runing the T28 kit from PES? Im sorry but i tried to search and got nothing. thanks for any info

Dee
Research topics I have participated in here on Clubb5. You should also search on Audiworld for problem subjects with PES since the Audi guys seem to install the big turbo kits more often than Passat owners. Be sure to select "archives" when searching there if nothing turns up in the current searches. Send me your email address and I will send you a personal rant from an offline email exchange with someone from Audiworld in regards to PES issues. AW might have deleted all the negatuive info on PES since a bunch of moderators there work for PES and APR.
 

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Try not to think of it as a maximum, try to think of it as an area where you better have some money in the bank for a new motor if you wish to tread there. A properly tuned high output setup can be more reliable than a poorly tuned lower output setup, but pushing the envelope is always expensive. Keep in mind that people always come to forums to brag about their big dyno charts, they rarely come to brag about popping a motor. However there's a good list of blown 1.8Ts motors, blown trannies, and blown turbos if you spend time searching around the bigger forums. You've got to pay to play. The motor looked indestructable for the first few years but then it's easy for a motor to be indestructable when no one is running serious power.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=536002
http://forums.audiworld.com/performance/msgs/60757.phtml
 

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Macabre said:
Keep in mind that people always come to forums to brag about their big dyno charts, they rarely come to brag about popping a motor. However there's a good list of blown 1.8Ts motors, blown trannies, and blown turbos if you spend time searching around the bigger forums. You've got to pay to play.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=536002
http://forums.audiworld.com/performance/msgs/60757.phtml
Correctamundo!! Guess I am the lucky sap on clubb5 to represent the PES blown motor club. It's been a helluv an expensive past two years.. :(

BTW - excellent links Mac! I had read both those prior. :thumbup:
The link from AW has all the major t-28 players cept for Charlie who have had the more serious problems.
 

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pancreas said:
Does the fault lay with the PES software? Or the drivers growing a heavy foot.
A heavy foot anywhere under redline is perfectly fine, if it wasn't, the product should never be sold.

The problem lies with PES distributing incorrect chip programs. West Coast received chips meant for cars running octane only offered on the East coast and also, chip programs for NON-DBW cars were sent out for kits going into DBW cars.

The first 7 chips I received from PES were,

#1. For 93 octane, knowing I was in CA running 91 octane
#2. Were non-DBW chips
#3 The tip ECU and engine ECU files never matched. GIAC software is supposed to function together when you use a engine ECU+tip ECU. If you have a tiptronic and have a GIAC tip chip, the engine ECU is programmed to match the TIP chip program. There is a different letter in the filename to show the difference. All engine chips I received from PES were for a manual transmission.

Go and read the posts Mac supplied and research more. All stories are the same. Boost spikes, detonation, overboosting, etc.. etc.. It's hit and miss with PES.
 

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I should post to be fair, I "have heard" most of this is in the past and PES "has" made changes for California & DBW cars. I believe Garrett himself did tuning to resolve the 91 octane issues resulting in detonation as well as combatting the DBW issues which resulted in extreme overboosting.

So far have not researched any new CA DBW installs. if there is new info someone please provide. Would dig on the file names.
 

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The point is really that if you modify your engine, you are generally removing margin for error. People do all sorts of silly things with the puny little stock turbo like break their stock boost control with inappropriate boost control solenoids, run crap fuel when they're feeling frugal, pay no attention to engine knock (can't hear it, won't hurt you, right?), and they don't have any problem because the motor's really not under significant stress. Pull those tricks with a higher output motor and you'll likely be looking for your ring lands down in your oil pan or trying to JBweld your snapped con rods back together.

So there's no magic number you have to stay under or company you need to avoid. You just need to be aware of the reality of engine tuning and remember that "how fast do you want to go?" = "how much money do you have?"
 

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400 hp is the common safe # among 1.8t builders. I know because ive asked about a million times just to make sure. However what Macabre said is worth money. Good words to keep in mind.
 
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