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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Welp, this is a first for me. I can usually work out my own issues with this car (few and far between, usually) but this one is beyond me right now. This is going to be long-winded, but I hope it makes it easier to offer advice on.

Background:

My 2004 wagon started life as a 1.8T Tiptronic FWD. More below

This is an EZG manual trans from an unknown B5 Passat model year with unknown mileage. It was originally put in as a manual swap job on my last B5 by my good friend Vwb5t. Ran it with the Valeo SMF conversion kit. Used a V6 pilot bearing because of it being an auto trans engine/crank. Ran it about 30k miles no issue. It was noisy but shifted well and sounded the same even after changing the fluid. 5 Years ago, I junked the B5 and pulled the motor/trans. Vwb5t (Matt) took the motor and I kept the trans. Once I got the parts together a few months later, we swapped it into my 04 on his lift. Still the same sound (like TV white noise/static) but still shifted the same and clutch still looked almost brand new.

Fast forward about 4.5 years and all was still the same except if I let off the throttle in gear, you could hear a clunk. Same clunk happened if you engaged the clutch from a stop, downshifted and let out the clutch quickly, or accelerated quickly from coasting. I went easy on it for a few months thinking it was a CV and I was in the middle of moving to a new house.

Last night at rush hour, I picked up my kid from a friends house and the very last intersection near my home, I went to take off in first and nothing. Just a whizzing, grinding sound.

I know the 012 is a VERY stout transmission. I am just hoping I blew the clutch; like broke the clutch disc center hub or something. Like this: 012 DUK Transmission Exploded view part numbers available?

No indication of bad clutch friction material as it engaged and held strong up until now. Clutch pedal feels the same as it always has. Removed and inspected both axles. Both in perfect shape and joints are still tight like new.

Now, the sound. After getting it back home and ruling out the axles, I put the front end in the air and had my son put it in gear. I can turn the right wheel and it would ever so slightly let the other wheel turn (opposite direction). Any more turning force and it would not make the other side turn. Started it up. Findings below.
  • Put it in gear and let out the clutch. Grinding gear tooth sound and no movement from the wheels.
  • In Neutral and at idle with the clutch engaged, no abnormal sounds.
  • At idle with the clutch pedal pushed in, no abnormal sounds.
  • When in neutral and I let off the clutch, that same grinding sound as above, but only for a second. Then, just the sound of the engine idling.
At present time, I do not have the means to pull the trans in my driveway to diagnose any further. Luckily, I have one of the best VW/Audi shops on the East coast just down the street https://www.ngpracing.com/. They are working up a quote for a clutch (getting replaced regardless) and a used 012 with clutch, worst case. Thinking I can get out of there at about $2k, but we'll see. If not, I am not sure what I will do. I know one of my kids will drive it, eventually. So, there's that.

Fire away.
 

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I doubt the clutch, due to the differential malfunction that your wheel-turning test implies (isn't a limited-slip diff, is it?). Based just on that, my first suspicion would be the spider gears, but the fact that in gear it won't drive the output flanges, could be any one of several splined gear/shaft connections. Does the car roll OK, in Neutral? What if you put it in gear, engine off, then push the car. Do you hear the grinding noise then?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I doubt the clutch, due to the differential malfunction that your wheel-turning test implies (isn't a limited-slip diff, is it?). Based just on that, my first suspicion would be the spider gears, but the fact that in gear it won't drive the output flanges, could be any one of several splined gear/shaft connections. Does the car roll OK, in Neutral? What if you put it in gear, engine off, then push the car. Do you hear the grinding noise then?
It rolls in neutral with no issue and no sound that I could remember. I will have to test rolling it in gear tomorrow. I don't want to push it around because I live in a cul de sac with a slight decline to the end of the street. Also, it's a heavy pig. Not easy to get moving. I could put the wheels in the air with it in gear and have a helper roll the other wheel as I am rolling mine. That would be the same, no?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

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I don't have sound! :cry:
Now I gotta find my computer speakers in box somewhere. You're killing me man.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
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The noisy videos are with the trans in gear, correct? Well, the silence in Neutral tells me that the 'final drive' (ring/pinion/differential gears) is probably OK. I'm now leaning back to the clutch, since turning the wheel would now be turning the transmission's input shaft, but not when in Neutral.

It would be interesting to try the same thing but in different gears. If the rate of clicks decreases as you shift to higher gears, that would tend to prove the problem is at the clutch hub/input shaft.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I’ll try that again in the morning in other gears. Or tonight, if I’m feeling frisky. Pulling the driver axle was a bit of a chore. One flange bolt stripped so I had to cut the head off and wrangle it out.
Thanks.


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Like ylwagon I was leaning towards the spider gears as you know through our conversation yesterday.
When you're turning the wheel and it's making that clicking clunking noise, is the other wheel on the ground or is it up in the air free to spin?
Curious to hear what it sounds like in other gears as mentioned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Two more. Both wheels off the ground.

As advised before. Slowly turning one wheel makes the other turn opposite. Normal. If I turn it with a little more force, it will break loose and cause the clacking sound. The videos were in 4th and also did reverse with the same frequency/rate of clicking as in first gear.



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I'm still leaning towards spider gears. That sound is coming right through the wheel. If it were the clutch or input shaft I don't think it would resonate the sound like that. Just my opinion.
 
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See what ylwagon says when he chimes in.
 

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I wanted to throw this out there.


The noisy videos are with the trans in gear, correct? Well, the silence in Neutral tells me that the 'final drive' (ring/pinion/differential gears) is probably OK. I'm now leaning back to the clutch, since turning the wheel would now be turning the transmission's input shaft, but not when in Neutral.

It would be interesting to try the same thing but in different gears. If the rate of clicks decreases as you shift to higher gears, that would tend to prove the problem is at the clutch hub/input shaft.
I agree with this, however, taking into account with what we talked about yesterday.
If you let the clutch out and it makes a noise momentarily, that is the transfer of the rotating force going through all of the shafts and gears, if the spider gears are toast it could make that sound as the case / carrier tries to turn. But seeing as there is still some resistance it only allows the case / carrier to turn just a little bit.

The more I think about this the more I believe the guts of the case / carrier are toast. (i.e. spider gears, spider gear shafts and shims)
 

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This is what I believe to be the culprit.

White Product Font Auto part Line art
 
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I just watched those videos again. Man that is an unnerving mechanical sound.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well, if it is internal to the trans and a replacement isn't too bad, I will be keeping this trans for a teardown. I swear, I cannot find a teardown/rebuild ANYWHERE online for an 012/01W.
 

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Boy, for me that's a tough one to identify. No matter what, the trans has to come out at this point. Similarly, our poor old ylwagon still exists behind the company building, with a crankshaft that hardly turns, but in all likelihood I'll never get around to knowing why.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
I've had the old girl for 15 years. I don't think I will give up on her quite yet. Much to my wife's dismay.
 
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I've got a spare, but it uses the smaller tripod axles and bearings, so older uprights would be needed. A newer used trans should not be too expensive. www.car-part.com lists multiple V6 manual transmissions for the Passat within 50 miles of your location.
 
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