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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone :)

Today was the first time when I went to a service station to change my oil. A guy working there suggested me to get synthetic oil recommended for VW cars instead of a regular one and I agreed. I paid $57 inc taxes for Kendall Synthetic Oil 5W-30.
When I got home I decided to enlighten myself on this subject for the future :rolleye: On Kendell web site I found out that only Kendall GT-1 5W-40 meets or exceeds requirements of VW 505, 502, 500, not 5W-30.

I don't know if there is a big difference between 5W-30 and 5W-40 oils.
Is it bad that the service station I went to put 5W-30 when in the beginning they told they'd put what was recommended for VW cars? :lookout:
TY
 

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First off, what year car do you have? Is it a 1.8t? Is Kendall GT-1 5W-30 VW APPROVED? Alot of oils say "meets or exceeds VW recommendations, but if the sludge, manufacturer's, or extended warranties apply to your vehicle, then all that matters is the phrase "VW APPROVED," cause anything else will void the warranties.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, it's 1.8 2001 (pre-owned certified)
My problem is that I never changed my oil before (my fiance always did it) and when I came to a service station, I had no idea what kind of oil I should get - was absolutely clueless.

As I can see from this link http://www.vw.com/vwcom/content/objects/pdf/service_maint/oilchart.pdf

Kendall 5W-30 is not approved! :( Only 5W-40
Should I call the service station that changed my oil? I think I paid a lot for oil change and the least they could've done was give me approved oil.
 

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The viscosity specs are certainly different between the oils. But whether the difference between the grades is enough to cause sludge is another question. Problem is if you have a sludge problem and try to get it fixed under VWs sludge warranty based on what I've read here, you may have problems with VW honoring the warranty. Since it doesn't meet VW standards, IMO I'd have the service station put in the 5W 40 (N/C since their screw up) or other oil that meets the standards. Its for your protection down the road.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I feel a little bit uncomfortable going back to that station and asking them to do their job again. What are the chances that they will put 5W-40? How can I be sure? Prolly they will pretend like they're changing my oil while the only thing they will do is write me another invoice saying that they put 5W-40.

For me it's the same thing as asking your waiter in Applebee's to bring you another meal or drink. There is a huge chance that they will spit in it even if it was their mistake from the beginning.

I'll call this service station tomorrow and ask why they put 5W-30 when they promised to put oil approved by VW Maybe they will give me a discount on my next oil change or partial refund. If I start arguing with them, I better not use this station again :)
 

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In all likelihood the 5w30 will be just fine. However, the warranty may be problematic in the future. If anything, if you can get them even to "pretend" and write you up a 5w40 reciept, that's would actually help you in keeping your warranty valid. Personally I think the price of the two oils should be about the same, and they screwed up, there is no good reason for them to have used the wrong one (not even for price). The problem generally is that vw approved 0w40 and 5w40 are hard oils to find. There are a few vw approved 5w30s, but they are very rare. Take it back, at worst, they write you up for 5w40, and you just make sure to change the oil at 5k with the right one. At best, they fix everything. Just my thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you, Bobnfloyd! :bowdown: It's a good advice (get them even to "pretend" and write you up a 5w40 reciept), I will follow it.
Next time before I bring my baby to any service station, I will make sure that they have VW approved oil.

:heart: Passatworls forum!
 

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Nightshade said:
I feel a little bit uncomfortable going back to that station and asking them to do their job again. What are the chances that they will put 5W-40? How can I be sure? Prolly they will pretend like they're changing my oil while the only thing they will do is write me another invoice saying that they put 5W-40.

For me it's the same thing as asking your waiter in Applebee's to bring you another meal or drink. There is a huge chance that they will spit in it even if it was their mistake from the beginning.

I'll call this service station tomorrow and ask why they put 5W-30 when they promised to put oil approved by VW Maybe they will give me a discount on my next oil change or partial refund. If I start arguing with them, I better not use this station again :)
One thing you (Fiance) might do in the future to guarantee the correct oil is being used is to bring in your own. I always bring my own Mobile 1 0w40 to the delaer for the oil changes.
 

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5w-30 will not kill the car, in fact as the temps are cold right now it's almost preferable IMO as you'll get better fuel economy. Although, if you are going to run 5W-30 there are only a couple that are approved...Valvoline Synpower 5W-30 is one of them (and what I ran my last fill Nov-Feb). Now that I'm back to 5W-40 (Valvoline Synpower) I'm seeing a drop of about 1.5 mpg/tank. tHis will probably be less once the temps warm up, but the change in oil is quite noticeable on cold-start (typically 15 degrees F as of late). The Synpower 5W-40 and the Mobil-1 0W-40 seem to behave about the same in the cold FWIW based on my experiences.

Funny how a few years ago when I had free maintenace on my first Passat, the dealer used 5w-30 non-synthetic on a 5K OCI year-'round. :banghead:
 

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W8inde said:
First off, what year car do you have? Is it a 1.8t? Is Kendall GT-1 5W-30 VW APPROVED? Alot of oils say "meets or exceeds VW recommendations, but if the sludge, manufacturer's, or extended warranties apply to your vehicle, then all that matters is the phrase "VW APPROVED," cause anything else will void the warranties.
This is wrong. As long as the oil states that it meets VW 502.00 specification, VW cannot and will not void your warranty. VW does not approve specific oils, they simply establish a standard and its up to the oil manufacturer to produce an oil that meets that standard.

VW in a letter to customer said:
From VW:

Choosing the right oil matters a lot more today than it used to. The power plant in your 1998-2006 Volkswagen is one of the most advanced and sophisticated automobile engines available today. Built to precise specifications, it requires an exact grade, viscosity and quality of engine lubrication.

Engine oils have been further developed and improved since your vehicle was manufactured. Volkswagen has also developed a new oil quality standard that meets the needs of the gasoline engine in your 1998–2006 Volkswagen. Engine oil that met previous Volkswagen oil quality standards may no longer be easy to find. This booklet will give you important information about the right engine oil for your 1998–2006 gasoline powered Volkswagen and inform you about the newVolkswagen oil quality standard that many oil companies are using to certify their engine oils today. You will probably find that engine oil which complies with this new Volkswagen oil quality standard is more readily available today than oil that complies with the Volkswagen oil quality standards listed in the Owners Literature for your Volkswagen.

Many synthetic oils available today provide better engine lubrication that can outlast traditional petroleum-based oils, making them a smart choice for use throughout the life of your Volkswagen. Because of this fact, Volkswagen strongly recommends that you use synthetic-based oil that complies with Volkswagen oil quality standard VW 502 00 as a replacement lubricant. Whether you use synthetic or petroleum-based engine oil, the oil that you use must conform to Volkswagen oil quality standard VW 502 00 in order to help keep your vehicle’s engine running smoothly and help prevent the formation of harmful sludge and deposits that can lead to expensive repairs. At the time of printing, all of the engine oils Volkswagen is aware of that meet the exacting Volkswagen oil quality standard are synthetic-based.

Engine oil for 1998–2006 model year gasoline engine Volkswagen vehicles
Specification and viscosity
Engine oil for the gasoline engine in your Volkswagen must conform to exact specifications. Your engine needs an all-season, high-quality engine oil that conforms to Volkswagen oil quality standard VW 502 00. If you need to add oil between changes, or perform an oil change, use only an engine oil with the correct specifications that complies with Volkswagen oil quality standard VW 502 00. Oil container labels may carry these specifications singly or in combination with other designations and oil quality standards.

Engine oils are graded according to viscosity.
The proper viscosity grade oil for your engine depends on climatic or seasonal conditions where you drive. You can use oil with a viscosity grade of SAE 5W40 across all temperature ranges for normal driving conditions. However, if engineoil viscosity grade SAE 5W40 is not available, you can also use viscosity grade SAE 5W30 or SAE 0W40as long as it meets Volkswagen oil quality standard VW 502 00. Please remember that not all commercially available oils conform to Volkswagen oil quality standard VW 502. 00 even though they may have the same viscosity.

Checking the oil level
A lot of things affect oil consumption. For that reason, we urge you to check the oil level in your vehicle at frequent intervals, preferably every time you refuel and always before going on a long trip. Please remember that the oil pressurelight is not an indicator of low engine oil level. Always use the oil dipstick to get a true reading of the oil level in your engine and be sure to check the oil level at regular intervals. Specific directions regarding the proper checking of the oil level in your VW are given in your Owner’s Literature. Because the approved engine oil may not always be available when you need it, we strongly recommend that you always carry with you an extra quart (liter) of oil that conforms to Volkswagen oil quality standardVW 502 00in case you have to top off the oil while on the road. Only if the level of the oil is at or below minimum and no oil that meets Volkswagen oil quality standard VW 502 00 is available, may you top off with a high quality oil, preferably synthetic-based that meets ACEA A3 specifications, but only in viscosity grades SAE 5W30, or SAE 0W40. However, between oil change intervals, never top off with more than a total of 0.5 quart (0.5 liter) engine oil that does not conform to Volkswagen oil quality standard VW 502 00.

Note
If you use engine oil that does not expressly conform to Volkswagen oil quality standard VW 502 00, very serious and very expensive damage to your vehicle’s engine canoccur. Engine damage caused by using the wrong engine oil is not covered by your Limited New Vehicle Warranty.

Changing the engine oil The engine oil and oil filter must be changed according to the mileage and time intervals specified in your vehicle’s Maintenance Booklet. Do not exceed these intervals – harmful sludge and deposits from old engine oil can reduce engine performance and can lead to expensive engine repairs. Changing the oil at the recommended intervals is so very important because the lubricating properties of oil decrease gradually during normal vehicle use. If you are not sure when you have your oil changed, ask your authorized Volkswagen Service Advisor. Under some circumstances the engine oil should even be changed more frequently. Change oil more often if you drive mostly short distances, operate the vehicle in dusty areas or mostly under stop-and-go traffic conditions, or when you use your vehicle where temperatures stay below freezing point for long periods. Detergent additives in the oil will make fresh oil look dark after the engine has been running for a short time. This is normal and is not a reason to change the oil more often than recommended.

Need more information?
For more information regarding the approved oil for your vehicle or the correct oil filter to use, please contact either your authorized VW dealer or VW Customer Care Center (toll free at 1-800-822-8987 or through our website at www.vw.com). Here you will find a current list of oils (manufacturers, brand names, etc.) that conform to Volkswagen oil quality standards.

Note
•Always store an extra quart (liter) of engine oil in its original oil container that is securely closed. Make sure the container is securely stowed in the luggage compartment.
You'll note that nowhere does it say it must be VW approved - its simply says must meet VW 502 standard.
 

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scotty_passat said:
5w-30 will not kill the car, in fact as the temps are cold right now it's almost preferable IMO as you'll get better fuel economy. Although, if you are going to run 5W-30 there are only a couple that are approved...Valvoline Synpower 5W-30 is one of them (and what I ran my last fill Nov-Feb).
This is incorrect. Valvoline Synpower 5w-30 IS NOT 502.00 COMPLIANT as available in North America. http://www.valvoline.com/products/Synpower.pdf

Only 5w-40 is approved, as well as 20w-50 (wouldn't recommend 20w-50 though).

VWoA made an error on their list and it's going to hurt people. The only 5w-30 from Valvoline in North America that meets 502.00 is MaxLife Synthetic. http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=101

Whether VW got confused, or whether they picked up the European formula being compliant http://www.valvolineeurope.com/index.asp?pageid=974fef2dc4f94f4ba006d6cde41b312c , who knows. But the list is wrong.
 

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Altair 4 said:
The only 5w-30 from Valvoline in North America that meets 502.00 is MaxLife Synthetic.
The Valvoline spec sheet says to see owner's manual for viscosity requirements. IIRC, my 1999 1.8T owners manual says 5W-30 is only for lower temperatures, and to use a higher viscosity for summer.

Therefore, do I read the Valvoline site and the VW owners manual correctly that 5W-30 is too thin (maybe the 10W-30 is OK), or did they make an exception here?
 

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Criminy...people are so devoted to the letter of the law, use whatever synthetic oil you want. It might make your mileage swing one way or the other a few percent. Who cares? Think about the reasons for sludge buildup or "turbo turds" as we colorfully call them.

How about instead when you drive it hard you let it idle for a couple minutes to let the turbo cool down and to let the oil and coolant circulate through it. Or better yet get a turbo timer.

Change your oil every 5k and use AutoRx once in a while if you are paranoid and need a placebo and you're golden.

Or here if you are really anal, get an optical pyrometer and measure the temperature of the surface of the turbo exhaust turbine housing and don't shut down the engine until it gets below the smoke point of the oil. Then genuflect and stand on your head while reciting Stairway to Heaven backwords.
 

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The only downside of using a 5W-30 synthetic in a 1.8T is the possibility of increased oil consumption or leakage, because it may be a bit thin at full operating temperature. To protect my powertrain warranty, I still use 502.00 oils exclusively (I use Mobil 1 0W-40, but anything on the list will do just fine), but 5 years from now, I will feel free to use ANY good synthetic which meets the 1.8T's requirements, such as Mobil 1 "truck and SUV" 5W-40.

Leave the 5W-30 in the car for now, do your next oil change a bit early (3k mi =5k km if you normally go 5k mi = 8k km), and make sure you get a 502.00 oil next time, either by demanding it or by bringing your own.
 

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wedontneednostinkingvtec said:
Criminy...people are so devoted to the letter of the law, use whatever synthetic oil you want.
:biglaugh:

But "letter of the law" seems to be what VWoA requires for the sludge/coked oil issue to be addressed under their extension. If it ain't 502.00 done on a 5,000 mile OCI, they can stick it to ya.

And, yeah, I know, if you use any synth and change often, then conventional wisdom here says you won't have a sludge/coked oil issue to begin with.

And I've been a part of this community long enough to remember people debating whether we really needed to use synth, and if we did we could stretch out the OCI's beyond the 5,000 mile range. So I think I'll stick with OCI's under 5,000 miles and stick with a listed 502.00 compliant oil. Gives me one less thing to worry about.
 

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Altair 4 said:
:biglaugh:

But "letter of the law" seems to be what VWoA requires for the sludge/coked oil issue to be addressed under their extension. If it ain't 502.00 done on a 5,000 mile OCI, they can stick it to ya.

And, yeah, I know, if you use any synth and change often, then conventional wisdom here says you won't have a sludge/coked oil issue to begin with.

And I've been a part of this community long enough to remember people debating whether we really needed to use synth, and if we did we could stretch out the OCI's beyond the 5,000 mile range. So I think I'll stick with OCI's under 5,000 miles and stick with a listed 502.00 compliant oil. Gives me one less thing to worry about.
Exactly.
 

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Yeah I guess you're right. Sticking to the letter of the law is the most conservative way to go.

I guess I've always been a rebel...I'll run 5W-30 or gasp 10W-40 whooo hoooo,
I am livin' la vida loca baby.

Maybe if I'm feeling especially naughty I'll mix the two.

[/insert Austin Powers voice] "oh beehaaave." [insert Austin Powers voice]
 

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intersting post...I was referencing the "VW APPROVED OILS .pdf"

http://www.vw.com/vwcom/content/objects/pdf/service_maint/oilchart.pdf

...which does seem to be incorrect based on these links.


Altair 4 said:
This is incorrect. Valvoline Synpower 5w-30 IS NOT 502.00 COMPLIANT as available in North America. http://www.valvoline.com/products/Synpower.pdf

Only 5w-40 is approved, as well as 20w-50 (wouldn't recommend 20w-50 though).

VWoA made an error on their list and it's going to hurt people. The only 5w-30 from Valvoline in North America that meets 502.00 is MaxLife Synthetic. http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=101

Whether VW got confused, or whether they picked up the European formula being compliant http://www.valvolineeurope.com/index.asp?pageid=974fef2dc4f94f4ba006d6cde41b312c , who knows. But the list is wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I got a new receipt

One thing you (Fiance) might do in the future to guarantee the correct oil is being used is to bring in your own. I always bring my own Mobile 1 0w40 to the delaer for the oil changes.
I'll buy VW approved oil and bring it to a service station only if I can see that they use my oil (should have a huge glass window in their office :)), otherwise you cannot be sure that they'll use your Mobile 1 0w40 oi --can easily put it away and give smth cheaper instead...

5w-30 will not kill the car, in fact as the temps are cold right now it's almost preferable IMO as you'll get better fuel economy
Yes, that's what a guy at my service station was trying to tell me today. Also, he told that Kendall 5W-30 recommended for VW, which is not true. I showed him a print out from Kendall web site where they say that only 5W-40 meet or exceed the requerement of VW.
I didn't ask them to change my oil, I only asked to print me a new receipt which says that they used 5W-40. They looked at me, I looked back at them unblinkingly, they sighed and printed me a new receipt :angel: . They took back my previous one, I guess for their own protection.

Next time I change my oil, I'll use this chart
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Who to believe?

scotty_passat said:
intersting post...I was referencing the "VW APPROVED OILS .pdf"

http://www.vw.com/vwcom/content/objects/pdf/service_maint/oilchart.pdf

...which does seem to be incorrect based on these links.
That's so weird :confused: . I called VW and Tanya told me that even if I see Valvoline 5W-30 on their approved list, they would recommend to use it only if I cannot find 5W-40. When I asked 2d time why Valvoline doesn't have 5W-30 among approved oils for VW cars, she ignored me and started explaining me that the most important thing is a viscosity index. I guess she didn't know "why"
When I called Valvorine, a technician said that 5W-30 doesn't meet VW standards and probably VW made a mistake by putting Synpower 5W-30 on their approved list.

If you compare e.g Valvoline 5W-30/ 5W-40 oils Kendall 5W-30/5W-40 and Pennzoil Quaker state 5W-30, you will notice smth interesting:
5W-30 Valvoline has Viscosity Index of 157 when Kendall has 166 & Pennzoil Quaker state (full synthetic) -- 177
V flash point -242, K -235, PQ s -227
5W-40 Valvoline viscosity index- 175, Kendall - 175,
V flash point -238, K -232
While 5W-40s have pretty similar characteristics, 5W-30s are differ significantly...
and if Valvoline 5W-30 is on VW approved list, why couldn't they put Kendall 5W-30?
 
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