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Discussion Starter #1
Hey, at least we beat DAEWOO!

J.D. Power long-term quality survey
Problems per 100 vehicles

Porsche 193
Toyota 196
Honda 215
Nissan 258
BMW 262
General Motors 264
Subaru 266
Average 273
Ford 287
DaimlerChrysler 311
Mitsubishi 339
Hyundai 342
Isuzu 368
Volkswagen 378
Suzuki 403
Daewoo 421
Kia 509

"The manufacturers performing worst in the survey were Volkswagen, Suzuki, Daewoo and Kia. Those names, along with Ford's Land Rover brand, were also the worst-ranked brands in the survey. Land Rover was second-worst with 441 problems per 100 vehicles. Kia had 509."

http://money.cnn.com/2003/07/08/pf/autos/bc.autos.durability/index.htm
 

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:suspicio: JD Power is :crazy:
 

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Go 'Canes said:
:suspicio: JD Power is :crazy:
Canes are? :crazy:

Go Noles !!!!
 

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V6er said:
Go 'Canes said:
:suspicio: JD Power is :crazy:
Canes are? :crazy:

Go Noles !!!!
Don't start, please. We beat your ass three years in a row. :roll:
 

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The cars used in this survey were 3 years old. Newer Passats would fare much better.

________________
Hers: 2002 GLS Variant 1.8T, Tiptronic, Fresco Green, Black Leather, Luxury Package, Monsoon
(Built August, 2001 - Emden, Germany)
Mine: 2003 GLS Sedan 1.8T, Tiptronic, Silverstone Gray, Black Leather, Monsoon, ESP
(Built October, 2002 - Mosel, Germany)
 

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e36bmw said:
The cars used in this survey were 3 years old. Newer Passats would fare much better.
you'd wonder about that with the whole coil pack fiasco, not that i consider JD powers the source for all things auto related
 

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I don't put much stock in these surveys for several reasons. First 'problem' does not appear to be clearly defined, nor is there any stated reporting mechanism. Seems like all they do is count the number of complaints, educated or not, valid or not, severity or significance not withstanding. Unless they tell me a lot more about their polling data and filters, if any, I'd ignore this stuff.....
 

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I always love reading what you guys write when you attempt to rationalize how Volkswagen ALWAYS does poorly in surveys of almost any sort of quality.
 

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My comments are not intended as a VW defense and can logically be seen as otherwise, just an observation that I'd sure like to have some info on the source before I put any stock in opinions that are expressed, including JD Powers, etc.....
 

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e36bmw said:
The cars used in this survey were 3 years old. Newer Passats would fare much better.
Haven't been paying much attention around here?

A 3 year old Passat would be a '00, which was one of the best years me-thinks. Pre coil pack supplier switch, post turbo design flaw..

However it's not the Passat that's bringing down the average.

JD Powers does everything based on customer feedback surveys. I suppose you could argue that VW owners are just more honest than the competitors. I guess that would mean Kia owners are most honest of all! :D
 

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Oh I know, I know.

It's all slanted against VW and the answers the respondents give have nothing to do with anything.

And the higher-ranked cars on the list are just lucky because of all that bias.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
MDG said:
First 'problem' does not appear to be clearly defined, nor is there any stated reporting mechanism. Seems like all they do is count the number of complaints, educated or not, valid or not, severity or significance not withstanding.
Overview of methodology:
"This year's study is based on responses from more than 55,000 original owners of 2000 model-year cars and light trucks. The study covered 147 problems that can occur in nine different systems in a car. They included problems like excessive brake wear or the replacement of components not called for under the normal maintenance schedule."

Brake problems are the single biggest complaint from long-term car owners, Mr. Walters said.

Translation to costs:
"In addition, auto suppliers have said Japanese automakers' warranty costs average $300 to $400 per vehicle, with Toyota averaging less than $100 per vehicle, compared with $600 to $700 per vehicle for the Big Three."

Translation to pricing:
"Long-term quality often translates into money won or lost for automakers. Ivers said Honda's reputation for durability translates to a $1,500 premium in the new car market, with a even larger premium in used vehicles."

Long-term reputations, once earned, are hard to change (for good or ill):
"Brand image is tough to turn around," said Mr. Walters. "At this point, Mercedes is benefitting from a good reputation." Once at the top of the quality ranking, Mercedes has been slipping for a decade. If the downward trend continues, "it's going to come back to hurt Mercedes-Benz," Mr. Walters said. He said long-term quality is especially important in luxury cars, where the certified used car market continues to grow.

Conversely:
"GM is practically giving its cars away and people still want to buy Hondas and Nissans,'' said Alexander Muromcew, who helps manage a $53 billion global portfolio for Loomis Sayles & Co., including Nissan and Honda shares. "I don't see anything on the horizon that's going to change what we're seeing.''

"Conventional wisdom said that dependability was the property of the Japanese and Europeans," said Joe Ivers, a partner at J.D. Power. "While that's still true for auto makers like Toyota and Honda, it's no longer the case for many of the Europeans." Porsche AG's Porsche, Ford's Jaguar, GM's Saab and BMW AG's BMW performed above industry averages, but many others did not, he said.

Alternative view (for new-car purchases, anyway):
Strategic Vision (SV), a California based research company, recently released its annual Total Quality Index, ranking BMW first among brands and Volkswagen the top multi-line automaker.

SV surveyed over 31,000 buyers at least 90 days after their purchase of a 2003 model that they bought between October and November of last year. The TQI rating system is based on a combination of expectations realized, general quality, emotional attributes such as styling as well as the dealer experience before, during and after the sale.
 

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darisgin said:
Alternative view (for new-car purchases, anyway):
Strategic Vision (SV), a California based research company, recently released its annual Total Quality Index, ranking BMW first among brands and Volkswagen the top multi-line automaker.

SV surveyed over 31,000 buyers at least 90 days after their purchase of a 2003 model that they bought between October and November of last year. The TQI rating system is based on a combination of expectations realized, general quality, emotional attributes such as styling as well as the dealer experience before, during and after the sale.
Ninety days is right before the grand snap back to reality period on VWs.

For some people, nice plastics, good handling, and sharp looks are more important than not having CELs, bad control arms, and flooded floorboards. None of which typically happens during the time period SV surveys.

See, I can rationalize stuff to suit my view, too! :wink:
 

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I hopped over to Consumer Reports (I know, I know) website to look at some of the lower rated brands on that list and the only thing that set VW apart was owner satisfaction. Ford, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Isuzu and Chrysler (except MB) products had pretty mostly black dots for owner satisfaction.

It just gives me the jist that most VW owners are still happy with their cars even after having problems and this seems to be the general attitude I have gotten from the VW owners I know. I know alot of people with Beetles, Jettas and a few Golfs, they pretty much all say something along the lines of 'Yeah I have had problems but I still love my car' and are still proud to own a VW. Mercedes-Benz was similar to VW, horrible predicted reliability but pretty good owner satisfaction.
 

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Passat Vs rest of VW

If the survey seperate Passat from the rest of the VW (Jetta, Golf, Eurovan etc). Passat will be MUCH better than the rest of the VW family!!
 

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Re: Passat Vs rest of VW

bsum70 said:
If the survey seperate Passat from the rest of the VW (Jetta, Golf, Eurovan etc). Passat will be MUCH better than the rest of the VW family!!
That's because our cars are made in Germany. :wink: I still love my Volkswagen.
 

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The Passat is actually the only CR "Recommended" VW. I doubt it has anything to do with country of origin though.

My Brazilian made Golf was delivered with only a misaligned drivers door, my Passat had a misaligned sunroof, misaligned airbag covers (drivers and passengers) and the A-pillar trim pieces have huge gaps in them.

Maybe I got a Monday morning/Friday afternoon Passat and a Wednesday after lunch Golf? Either way I still love both my Volkswagens! :D
 
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