Is SIMONIZ a scam or a good idea

15126 Views 17 Replies 11 Participants Last post by pete1, Jun 21, 2004

gig103

Discussion Starter · Jun 17, 2004

The financial managers have been pushing this product on new cars. Supposedly it is a wax that bonds w/ the paint after 45min and is infused with teflon (similar to the material they 'wrap' the car in on the lot). It costs like $400 and gives you a 5 year warantee against damage due to acid rain, bird crap, tree sap, etc.

"We wrap the cars in teflon because of the acid rain, with a dark paint like your black car you should get this to avoid spots"

Is this the new age "rustproofing" scam? :???:

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

pass-variant

· #2 · Jun 17, 2004

It's a total scam. Do you plan on washing your car? Maybe even waxing it once in a while? Then it's a total scam.

You could have your car professionally detailed (on the outside) once a year for 5 years for $400. I'd prefer that to a one time application. Do it yourself, and it's almost free in conparison.

It's not like if you do it, you don't have to wash it. It will still get dirty, and the paint will still get contaminated.

Just a little TLC by you is more than enough.

sirwired

· #3 · Jun 18, 2004

Yeah, I told the finance guy that the Simoniz crap was an insult to my intelligence. Hmmm... lets think for a moment. The most noticable thing about Teflon is that it doesn't stick to anything, except under extreme circumstances. IIRC, to get it to stick to frying pans, the pans have to be etched with acid, and then the Teflon is applied at some insanely high temperature. Ask the finance moron if he plans on etching your car in acid and baking it in an industrial oven.

What is sticking to you car is the car wax, which may very well have teflon in it, but wax repels water just as well as Teflon. DuPont (the makers of Teflon) specifically state that Teflon has no benefit when put in motor oil, car wax, etc. The only reason Simoniz can use it is because a federal judge ruled that DuPont would be violating anti-trust laws if they attempted to restrict the uses to which Teflon was put.

The warranty is likely not worth the paper it is printed on. It probably only covers issues that would be caused by the paint being eaten through to bare metal. This isn't going to happen in four years unless the local bird population is related to the bad guys from the "Alien" movies.

SirWired

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gig103

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jun 18, 2004

Cool guys, thanks for the information.

RobsB

· #5 · Jun 18, 2004

sirwired said:
Yeah, I told the finance guy that the Simoniz crap was an insult to my intelligence. Hmmm... lets think for a moment. The most noticable thing about Teflon is that it doesn't stick to anything, except under extreme circumstances. IIRC, to get it to stick to frying pans, the pans have to be etched with acid, and then the Teflon is applied at some insanely high temperature. Ask the finance moron if he plans on etching your car in acid and baking it in an industrial oven.

What is sticking to you car is the car wax, which may very well have teflon in it, but wax repels water just as well as Teflon. DuPont (the makers of Teflon) specifically state that Teflon has no benefit when put in motor oil, car wax, etc. The only reason Simoniz can use it is because a federal judge ruled that DuPont would be violating anti-trust laws if they attempted to restrict the uses to which Teflon was put.

The warranty is likely not worth the paper it is printed on. It probably only covers issues that would be caused by the paint being eaten through to bare metal. This isn't going to happen in four years unless the local bird population is related to the bad guys from the "Alien" movies.

SirWired

Interesting about the Dupont statement because they just came oput with anew line of car care products with Teflon ... waxe, wheel cleaner, car wash etc.

Jesstzn

· #6 · Jun 18, 2004

The *teflon* is a sales gimmic the same as turbo and lazer .. the words sell product .. Just like the razors at the store the "Gillette Turbo Lazer" razor with 3 blades... is there a turbo or a lazer inthe razor .. rightttttttttttt!!!.

The Simoniz is a scam just like the Diamond Cote they sell for $400 to $1100 ( on Cadillacs up here ). Thje Diamond Cote is a polymer sealant no different than Klasse or Zaino or Nu-Finish.

They pray on you so you will take care of your new investment. Would be interesting to read the warranty. I know of more than one who went back after a year and said there is no protection left and found out *you* have obligations to reapply additional layers and failures were your fault and any claim has so many hoops to jump through its not worth following through to recoupe $400.

Your better off to have a detailer apply Klasse AIO/Sg for a couple hundred a year or do it yourself. Hell Nu-Finish is only $8 for the liquid abd your set.

A detailer here just sold his stock and told me Diamond Cote cost him less than $15/ bottle and his $8 / hour kid puts it on a car in less than 2 hours .. .. your cost $400 to $1100 depending on how good the salesman is and how gullable you are.

I do full polish outs and apply Klasse on a mid sized car for less than $200 and no filler glases are used to hide things .. Klasse will last a daily driver over a winter if respected.

If you drop in to a detailing sight like www.autopia.org and look in the learn .. you will see its not rocket science ..

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A-Tiller-the hun

· #7 · Jun 19, 2004

bogus... they just tried to sell us that with the new Pilot, which we pick up Monday... i'm stoked...

pancreas

· #8 · Jun 19, 2004

Scam.

RiverRipper

· #9 · Jun 19, 2004

I hate to say it but people that fall for this, the undercoating, and scotchguarding the seats deserve being ripped off. You can go to any autobody place and buy basically the same stuff they do any of these applications with for under 20 bucks a bottle. The salesmen are trying to make commision and the dealers a profit so if 10 idiots buying undercoating for 300-500 bucks allows me to get a better price on my car thank god for the gullible people in this world.

Jesstzn

· #10 · Jun 19, 2004

RiverRipper said:
The salesmen are trying to make commision and the dealers a profit so if 10 idiots buying undercoating for 300-500 bucks allows me to get a better price on my car thank god for the gullible people in this world.

Don't get your hopes up ... you won't see a penny of it.

sirwired

· #11 · Jun 20, 2004

Interesting about the Dupont statement because they just came oput with anew line of car care products with Teflon ... waxe, wheel cleaner, car wash etc.

I do belive that this is a concrete example of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em". If anybody is going to make money off of sticking useless Teflon in car care products, it might as well be DuPont.

Perusing their website, it appears they are also behind the stupid Fram oil filter with Teflon in it. DuPont's website is very careful to not state it will do any good. Instead, it exists to "Provide Teflon to drivers who want a PTFE [the abbrev. for the chemical name of Teflon] product in their engine."

Teflon Car Wash! Gimme a break! You rinse car wash off the car! What the heck are little specs of Teflon going to do?

Oh, and I got the process wrong... apparently, after etching the surface, you have to coat the metal with super-special, super-secret primer, and THEN apply the Teflon at an insanely high temperature. So they would have to etch the car, spray it with extremely expensive paint, and THEN bake it in an oven.

SirWired

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gig103

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jun 21, 2004

Oh, and I got the process wrong... apparently, after etching the surface, you have to coat the metal with super-special, super-secret primer, and THEN apply the Teflon at an insanely high temperature. So they would have to etch the car, spray it with extremely expensive paint, and THEN bake it in an oven.

Wow, I can't wait to mention this when I go with my mom to pick up her car. Thanks for the info!

Oh and I found out my neighbors did get the Simoniz, is there anything they can do to get their money back, like false-advertising, since they were told "The Teflon bonds to the paint"

sirwired

· #13 · Jun 21, 2004

Doing more research:

There are two types of Teflon.

The one most familiar to consumers is the kind on a fry pan. This impressive stuff will pretty much not react with anything (read: no corrosion), and pretty much nothing sticks to it. Great! Applying this coating requires the aforementioned acidic primer (it tuns out DuPont now puts the acid and the primer in the same solution) and baking at several hundered degrees. Bad.

The second type is actually called Zonyl (same basic chem. compistion as Teflon). This is an additive that can indeed be mixed with waxes, paints, inks, etc. When this is done, it actually does increase water resistance, along with chemical and abrasion resistance. Teflon itself is more or less impervious to UV. Yay! However, it does not actually make the wax it is suspended in last much longer. The wax itself is still vulnerable to UV, and whatever else breaks down wax. (The percentage of Teflon is quite small (no more than a few percent), because for all it's other properties, Teflon isn't clear.)

So in a nutshell, the Teflon-type material in the wax (likely Zonyl), will help protect the paint to some small degree, but only while that particular wax is on the car. It certainly isn't going to do anything for you during all of that 5 year warranty they advertise.

VW paint is good enough that I suspect that even if you parked your car in LA, where it received smog, sunlight, and some acid rain to boot, and didn't wash or wax it once, it would not show any severe, visually obvious paint damage after five years, even without this stupid "Teflon" wax.

SirWired

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Antoddio

· #14 · Jun 21, 2004

VW paint is good enough that I suspect that even if you parked your car in LA, where it received smog, sunlight, and some acid rain to boot, and didn't wash or wax it once, it would not show any severe, visually obvious paint damage after five years, even without this stupid "Teflon" wax.

Perhaps then you would like to pay for a repaint on my car :lol: , which has etched clearcoat from a clean Cleveland suburb. This happened after the car was waxed. Wax allows the water to bead and then sit on the car till it dries, leaving all the bad deposits behind. Otherwise on an unwaxed car it just rolls off.

If this Teflon actually did anything...I would be very interested, cause my paint is crap.

sirwired

· #15 · Jun 21, 2004

The deposits may not be paint damage. They may just be dried crud. Have you tried a clay bar? They are known for removing hard water deposits, maybe they would work on those spots?

SirWired

Antoddio

· #16 · Jun 21, 2004

I have clayed and used somewhat abrasive hand polishes. I have only had one detailing shop look at it. They told me it was through the clearcoat and buffing would do nothing. They suggested I take it to a body shop and perhaps have it wetsanded. I am not really sure how that would work, if they would have to reapply clearcoat..etc, and he really couldn't tell me.

The spots are only noticible when the car is clean, which makes me think it is not that severe, but I can't get it off myself, that's for sure.

shadybaby

· #17 · Jun 21, 2004

if you can only see the spots when your car is clean then it is really dirty when it is clean and clean when it is dirty, imagine the irony in that!!

pete1

· #18 · Jun 21, 2004

A-Tiller-the hun said:
they just tried to sell us that with the new Pilot, which we pick up Monday... i'm stoked...

My wife drives one of those... bought it early this year. Nice, reasonably well-performing SUV. I like it.

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