Volkswagen Passat Forum banner
1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Lefties have rights, too!
Joined
·
15,698 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why do these companies think they should have special treatment from our government? It's their fault that they can't make a good product that sells.:crazy:
 

·
I got this user title because I'm old and special
Joined
·
8,552 Posts
I bet he is talking about being bailed out of bankruptcy for their horrible and ugly products.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
952 Posts
Japan gives money to its own car companies and look what it got them... Hybrid technology into the mass market! Damn that government incentive. Now if only we could help our domestic companies advance technology, instead of helping them make it worse (ex: consumption, oil and pollution restriction relaxation).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,154 Posts
I bet he is talking about being bailed out of bankruptcy for their horrible and ugly products.
For the love of God ... you calling these ugly? :poke:



No amount of subsidies hand out will help big 3 if they continue to turn out these ^^ beauties, they need to fire the executive old farts that gave final approval of above design. End of story.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
436 Posts
The real cause of the problem for American car companies isnt the products they put out or the fact that they make most of their money on SUVs which is a dying market but its the retired employees they still provide benefits to. Enough people in middle america and other areas of the country still buy american, their sales arent the issue so much as what it costs to build each car when you factor in the overhead of the company and what the workers get.

The japanese who build cars in America pay the workers less, they get less break time a day, and they dont have pensions and health care when the retire. So they do more work for less pay and when they stop working they stop getting paid. That right there is why GM, Ford, and Chrysler can't compete. The whole tarriffs on steel isnt as big an issue as the hundreds of thousands of people they are still giving money to years after they worked.

Add in the fact that a lot of other car makers seem to use the same components in tons of cars but the Americans havent figured out that if you build 1 million of these each will cost a $1 vs 200K of 5 different versions that due to switching machines, design costs, and varying materials it will cost a $1.50 each. By having tiny details like door handles, mirrors, seat belt buckles the same they could save lots of money on manufacturing cost for each car.
 

·
6th Grade
Joined
·
14,917 Posts
Hate to burst your bubble there mister RiverRipper, but it doesn't matter a damn WHAT Toyota pays their employees, what benefits are or are not offered to them, or anything else.

ALL that matters is that their product stomps the shit out of everyone else's, which it does. Toyota can sell all those vehicles because people want to buy them--there are no huge numbers of Toyotas being bought up by rental car companies or other fleet services. Toyota's great sales are there because ACTUAL PEOPLE are buying them by choice, and most are paying close full pop on a car that is usually close to the top of its price range for whatever category in the first place. One of the best thoughts I've read about this issue is that if GM, Ford, and Chrysler would quit building cars like they're going to have to use huge discounts and rebates to sell, they probably wouldn't have to.

The richest car company around these parts got there because they don't build junk, and until the domestics cease building junk, people like you will continue to have to make excuses for them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,682 Posts
i agree with sharky and agree with riverripper, the big 3 can't afford to compete; which is why they turn out crappy cars that require huge rebates. there's a good stat, i think is something like the big 3 spend more money per car built paying retirees than they do buying the steel used to build them.

design, image / perception, market share, globalization strategies, quality -- somebody stop me when i get to something not dramatically affected by the outrageous "old" costs these companies are bearing. on the other hand, i DON'T think they should back out of their commitments to their retirees and i'm not sure that anyone should bail them out. the companies effectively gambled (lured their workforce with distant future promises) and are completely losing their shirts now - and that's no one's fault but the people in charge back then. although, even that could be softened by how things for retirees have changed. people live longer and spend more on medical care etc (assumtions on my part), these types of things are hard to predict.

i really like some of what these companies are doing, and i like a lot of the products. i've had 4 dodges, 1 nissan, 2 vw's... and the only one i didn't really think was a decent car was the nissan ('94 altima). i'll continue to try and buy american, but bottom line, my purchase is affected by the same exact things these companies are forced to skimp on due in no small part to the retiree benefits.

a.s.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,838 Posts
Add in the fact that a lot of other car makers seem to use the same components in tons of cars but the Americans havent figured out that if you build 1 million of these each will cost a $1 vs 200K of 5 different versions that due to switching machines, design costs, and varying materials it will cost a $1.50 each. By having tiny details like door handles, mirrors, seat belt buckles the same they could save lots of money on manufacturing cost for each car.
You are NOT serious about this statement, are you? There is a lot of platform, motor and component sharing in american cars. Heck they introduced the [false] competition by introducing parallel models.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,832 Posts
They don't deserve anything, but the reality is that our economy (and the perception of our economy) would be significantly wounded by bankruptcy of any or all 3.

Same for the airlines, it happens there too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
436 Posts
You are NOT serious about this statement, are you? There is a lot of platform, motor and component sharing in american cars. Heck they introduced the [false] competition by introducing parallel models.
Its not the platforms or the drivetrain that adds up for them. Its the little items, door handles, mirrors, and the other small pieces that add up in cost. Most car makers use the same engines and platforms...but Honda uses the same parts in cars from top to bottom as much as possible while Chevy will have a different item in each version.
 

·
I got this user title because I'm old and special
Joined
·
8,552 Posts
You are NOT serious about this statement, are you? There is a lot of platform, motor and component sharing in american cars. Heck they introduced the [false] competition by introducing parallel models.
This is the problem. If model A sucks, so will model B, C, D, E, F badged under companies that shouldn't exist. When was the last time you said, I want to buy a Lincoln, Mercury, Pontiac, Buick, or Chrysler. And those are just the ones of the top of my head.

Their quality, styling, workmanship, and cost are beyond stupid. This is why they fail. I am just waiting for the retro Gremlin, Pinto, Bel Aire, Firebird and Trans Am. I am sure they have been concepted.:whistle:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
There is a ton of gear sharing among both Ford and GM products. Tahoe/Suburban/Avalanche all use exactly the same interiors, down to the grab handles and seat heater switches. And even Ford uses the same switchgear among their lines and the Jaguar lines. Moving on to bigger things, the Chrysler 300c and its variations are based on an old M-B platform.

I will never buy a car from the Big Three, but I am depending on Middle America (or my GM-loyal father-in-law) to continue do so because I agree with Holicow and many others that their ultimate demise would be very bad for our economy.
 

·
6th Grade
Joined
·
14,917 Posts
This is the problem. If model A sucks, so will model B, C, D, E, F badged under companies that shouldn't exist. When was the last time you said, I want to buy a Lincoln, Mercury, Pontiac, Buick, or Chrysler.
Yep.

This is why the cheapest VW feels so rich and why the most expensive Chevy feels kinda cheap; VW (just an example) brings their good stuff all the way down, and others drag their cheap crap to the top of the line by painting it silver or wrapping a piece of cheap leather around it.

And just for the record, I'd buy a 300C or Magnum Hemi in a heartbeat.
 

·
1st Gear
Joined
·
17,568 Posts
I think it would be a good time to do something about healthcare in this country.....before MORE companies follow their foot steps.

GM products have improved GREATLY past 3-5 years.....although they still make SOME garbage.

I think we ALL care if these companies stay in business......cause if they go down it will effect each and everyone of us PERIOD

Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,730 Posts
You know, I drove a 2006 Pontiac GTO and I also drove a new 2006 Mustang GT and to be quite honest I thought both of these cars were well done, tasteful, had nice interiors, nice exteriors, the engines were both fantastic, the manual transmissons were leaps and bounds above what I recalled from years ago, both of these cars (to me) had the whole package.

Having said that, the entire time I kept thinking "now why is it that nothing else on Pontiac's or Ford's lot does a DAMN thing for me?"

I would rock the hell out of a new Vette too but why is it that NOTHING else in the Chevy lineup even registers a blip on my radar?

I would have seriously considered a Dodge Magnum if they offered a manual transmission in it. I think it's a cool ass looking car but why no manual?

I wanted to test drive a CTS w/a manual transmission but when I asked about one the sales dude looked at me like I had lobsters crawling out of my ass.

I really feel like GM, Ford and Chrysler have pissed away the last 20 years. I still feel like they're all about 5 years behind where they should be. I don't know, I hope the big 2.5 can pull their act together some day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,103 Posts
But the Aztek was one sweet ride... you have to admit. :puke:
And they fired the guy who designed that one from his design post and made him the company president where he couldn't do anymore damage!

You guys talk as if the Big three had a choise in offering these stupid benefits packages. They wouldn't have given in to these benefits if the unions cared about anything other than themselves. The scocialists in our own government made it almost manditory for these companies to provide these benefits through the '60's and '70's. And now when the union has a chance to save the company they don't they told Delt Airlines (bankrupt) they wouldn't give up any benefits so now they don't have jobs.

If you think Toyota doesn't offer any benefits you are very wrong they have some of the best benefits packages in the industry... benefits for life. They just didn't have the unions to deal with in the '60's and '70's like everyone else in the US. They started building here when the union membership was beginning to wain and the unions were at their weekest.

I do believe the big three do need to change but that is what they are doing... 5 years ago Ford had 7 of the top 10 selling cars in the WORLD so we know they can build things americans like they just have to!
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top