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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My 02 1.8T has started stumbling occasionally while driving. Just a tiny second of rough running once or twice a day. Other than that, the car is running great. It doesn't always illuminate the CEL. First time I scanned the computer I got a P0011, and the next time a P0012.

First scan, 3/12:
16395 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake)
P0011 - 002 - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced) - Intermittent
16490 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96)
P0106 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

Second scan, 3/29 :
16396 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake)
P0012 - 001 - Advance Setpoint not Reached (Over-Retarded) - Intermittent
16804 - Catalyst System; Bank 1
P0420 - 002 - Efficiency Below Threshold - Intermittent

So far, I have checked the following:
The timing belt tension to make sure the belt hasn't come loose. The belt was replaced last July, maybe 8,000 miles ago.
I removed the valve cover and inspected the chain tensioner shoes that the chain rides against. They are in great shape.
Oil pressure is not outstanding, but decent. 64psi cold start, 19psi hot idle, 55psi at 2000 rpm hot.
Resistance at the cam chain tensioner solenoid is 14 ohms, spec is 10-18 ohms.
I ran the basic settings test, Camshaft Adjustment Group 94, test passed.
I ran through the output tests in the "advanced functions) and was able to hear the solenoid click off and on.

I'm not sure what else to check at this point. The chain tensioner is original, and the car has 306,000 miles on it now. I hate to throw parts at it if I'm not 100% sure it's the problem. Especially $800 parts.
 

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Those codes clearly point to the cam adjuster. Since it’s intermittent, maybe it sticks every now and then. Doesn’t sound far-fetched on a car with your mileage.

Of course with your engine, sludge and clogged oil pickups are also a problem. Drop oil pan to check?
 

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sorry to piggyback on your post, having identical problems ,same codes and symptoms, 2001.5 AWM 198k. my history; new timing belt kit,new oil pump,new cct (old one was fine),etc 12k ago, car runs/ran like a champ, Around first weekend in March oil change,filter (big kahuna Mann 950/4),replaced analog oil gauge to digital...... no teflon tape,used crush washer. next day 0011 ,but attributed to draining oil overnight......week passes now I get 0012 every so often but mostly 0011s ,if it throws the code it is on start ups, and if SAIP is on (temp. threshold met) when it turns off is when I get codes..... does not do it every morning, 6a.m. when I do my 60 mile commute, but ironically when I leave work 5:30 p.m it almost always does it. Monitor timing when I drive both t tways, high is 37 and low is in 20s when on a grade, oil pressure 65psi at 70-80 20-25 at hot idle ,I feel that oil pressure is not the issue, been same since new pump...... the puzzling thing is why at work every time and not in A.M. , check wiring ,I mean CCT is working . curious to what inputs "drive" the advancement and retard functions, not just rpms its the calculated loads etc, I could see a vacuum leak affecting this ,or a bad manifold pressure sensor!!! got mine apart ,going to put in old CCT this week, it worked when I took it out,of course panic set in when this first happened so checked belt timing marks and all spot on,timing chain,16 links etc. all good, belt tensioner at max but not the cause here, will reset when put in new/used CCT. also checked as has been mentioned for crank pulley keyway movement, indicator in #1 cylinder perfect....... did a forensic yesterday on removed (that I just took out) like brand new,well it was 10k ago....... but there is something else going on here, will be interested ,this has me at wit's end as everything new and running like a champ maybe a quart of oil (total) every 3500 miles, 28 mpg average on the commute, will let you know what I find,and be monitoring this post, I think the answer is "what is telling the CCT to activate/pulse, I know it's the ECM but what is telling/forcing the parameters.
 

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My 02 1.8T has started stumbling occasionally while driving. Just a tiny second of rough running once or twice a day. Other than that, the car is running great. It doesn't always illuminate the CEL. First time I scanned the computer I got a P0011, and the next time a P0012.

First scan, 3/12:
16395 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake)
P0011 - 002 - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced) - Intermittent
16490 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96)
P0106 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

Second scan, 3/29 :
16396 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake)
P0012 - 001 - Advance Setpoint not Reached (Over-Retarded) - Intermittent
16804 - Catalyst System; Bank 1
P0420 - 002 - Efficiency Below Threshold - Intermittent

So far, I have checked the following:
The timing belt tension to make sure the belt hasn't come loose. The belt was replaced last July, maybe 8,000 miles ago.
I removed the valve cover and inspected the chain tensioner shoes that the chain rides against. They are in great shape.
Oil pressure is not outstanding, but decent. 64psi cold start, 19psi hot idle, 55psi at 2000 rpm hot.
Resistance at the cam chain tensioner solenoid is 14 ohms, spec is 10-18 ohms.
I ran the basic settings test, Camshaft Adjustment Group 94, test passed.
I ran through the output tests in the "advanced functions) and was able to hear the solenoid click off and on.

I'm not sure what else to check at this point. The chain tensioner is original, and the car has 306,000 miles on it now. I hate to throw parts at it if I'm not 100% sure it's the problem. Especially $800 parts.
With 309K, it's your choice to pick either the "pull the pan and clean" or "replace the CCT" as stated above. You may end up with a clean oil pickup and still need the CCT. You can buy a OEM CCT for for $150: https://www.europaparts.com/cam-chain-tensioner-058109088k.html An OE would be about $100: https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Timing...3430?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c1#viTabs_0
 

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sorry to piggyback on your post, having identical problems ,same codes and symptoms, 2001.5 AWM 198k. my history; new timing belt kit,new oil pump,new cct (old one was fine),etc 12k ago, car runs/ran like a champ, Around first weekend in March oil change,filter (big kahuna Mann 950/4),replaced analog oil gauge to digital...... no teflon tape,used crush washer. next day 0011 ,but attributed to draining oil overnight......week passes now I get 0012 every so often but mostly 0011s ,if it throws the code it is on start ups, and if SAIP is on (temp. threshold met) when it turns off is when I get codes..... does not do it every morning, 6a.m. when I do my 60 mile commute, but ironically when I leave work 5:30 p.m it almost always does it. Monitor timing when I drive both t tways, high is 37 and low is in 20s when on a grade, oil pressure 65psi at 70-80 20-25 at hot idle ,I feel that oil pressure is not the issue, been same since new pump...... the puzzling thing is why at work every time and not in A.M. , check wiring ,I mean CCT is working . curious to what inputs "drive" the advancement and retard functions, not just rpms its the calculated loads etc, I could see a vacuum leak affecting this ,or a bad manifold pressure sensor!!! got mine apart ,going to put in old CCT this week, it worked when I took it out,of course panic set in when this first happened so checked belt timing marks and all spot on,timing chain,16 links etc. all good, belt tensioner at max but not the cause here, will reset when put in new/used CCT. also checked as has been mentioned for crank pulley keyway movement, indicator in #1 cylinder perfect....... did a forensic yesterday on removed (that I just took out) like brand new,well it was 10k ago....... but there is something else going on here, will be interested ,this has me at wit's end as everything new and running like a champ maybe a quart of oil (total) every 3500 miles, 28 mpg average on the commute, will let you know what I find,and be monitoring this post, I think the answer is "what is telling the CCT to activate/pulse, I know it's the ECM but what is telling/forcing the parameters.
It started when the digital gauge was added? I would check on the current draw if they are on the same circuit, or simply unplug the gauge for a day or two and see if the issue stops. Was the same sender used? Would it be possible a new sender blocked oil pressure going to the head? (Just a WAG, don't know).

I though the reason for the CCT/VVT is to change the cam timing to add fuel for the SAIP to warm the cat faster. I know it can be used to build torque faster and HP at higher rpm, but I thought that was only done on the B6 A4, not the B5 engines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
With 309K, it's your choice to pick either the "pull the pan and clean" or "replace the CCT" as stated above. You may end up with a clean oil pickup and still need the CCT. You can buy a OEM CCT for for $150: https://www.europaparts.com/cam-chain-tensioner-058109088k.html An OE would be about $100: https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Timing...3430?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c1#viTabs_0
Is the $150 part the same as the OEM $800 part? I thought I remember hearing negative reviews of non-VW tensioners.

Another thing I wanted to mention. I had a tensioner tool from where I replaced the leaking gaskets years ago. I wanted to get a good look at the tensioner shoes (or whatever you call the plastic the chain rides on.) I started screwing the tool into the cylinder head. The tensioner didn't seem to want compress, and the chain didn't loosen up either. I didn't have the engine at TDC or anything. Is that an indication of a problem as well?
 

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As to Woodys question , when you tighten the CCT tool it will compress not only the top but the bottom shoes ,possibly if engine not at TDC and exhaust cam not at timing mark there is tension on the chain bottom or top side created by the cams wanting to rotate intake cam one way or the other. As to my previous post ,as to oil pressure sending unit ,removed the mechanical oil tube/fitting (mounted in oil filter housing aux.port) and threaded in pressure transducer (digital) however did not hook up any electrical connections for a week or so after it started the 0011 and 0012 issues. As to 0011 code ,once in three or four starts in A.M. (6:00) does it throw the code, however when I leave work P.M. (5:30) it almost always throws the 0011 or a 0012. As to SAIP ,only a few days warm enough in A.M. or P.M. to trigger its use,however I assume something is in software to not look at Intake cam sensor's input/data until SAIP cycle is complete because as soon as pump turns off (50 sec), code immediately comes up, I can clear it restart and no codes. Monitoring data stream (with hand held reader) on my drives to and from work there is a direct correlation between "load"(assume that is intake manifold vacuum pressure related),RPM, and timing advance and who knows what else. Assume load is monitored by MAP sensor ,RPM by crank sensor ,I do not believe intake cam sensor is a factor in the sense it tell CCT to advance or retard but rather merely monitors it. It may be an input to turbo wastegate and or injectors, wish I could see there program. Will keep thinking on this one, could very well be CCT as there are a lot of iternal ports and check valves I assume. Will do some more reading on this component, I did take mine out to examine,seems all good ,no sticking and only 10 k, I did learn this that inside the top " piston" there is a plastic"rod" internal to the spring that only allows you to compress with the factory tool only so far to prevent from over tightening and distorting the spring.
 

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Is the $150 part the same as the OEM $800 part? I thought I remember hearing negative reviews of non-VW tensioners.
There are usually 3-4 levels of quality to parts. OEM VW is usually built by someone else, but branded VW. OES or OE, supplies the same part to VW, but this one has their own brand on it. Aftermarket varies in quality from great to trash. The $150 should be the same as the OEM VW part and has worked great on my car for the last few years.
 

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Is the $150 part the same as the OEM $800 part?
A great percentage of all parts are made in China because China is the biggest VW market. You need to take the "middle-man" concept into consideration. I believe many of the part suppliers just buy the parts from Chinese and mark it up and even sell it as their own brand. Bosch parts are made in India and I had a couple of bad experience with their parts although they are regarded as OEM.
 

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There are timing notches on each cam adjacent to the tensioner, which should align with marks on the tensioner when crank timing marks are at TDC. I'd take a look at those too.
+1 on this.

I had the same code. turned out the timing was one tooth off. Re-adjusted the tensioner making sure all lined up perfectly.

No more codes since. Power is back. Excellent fuel economy. (33-34mpg at 65mph highway driving)


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I used to have that fuel economy for a long time but nowadays it only gives me 24 MPG on highway and 19 MPG street driving. I have no codes and really wondered for a long time why this happened.
24 mpg is abysmal.
I had the same issue with my 98 AEB. It was pcv and boost related. Still it doesn’t get as good as the AWM.
I may have to look into what it is that AWM gets a superb gas mileage. :)


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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
There are usually 3-4 levels of quality to parts. OEM VW is usually built by someone else, but branded VW. OES or OE, supplies the same part to VW, but this one has their own brand on it. Aftermarket varies in quality from great to trash. The $150 should be the same as the OEM VW part and has worked great on my car for the last few years.
You're running this tensioner on one of your cars?


There are timing notches on each cam adjacent to the tensioner, which should align with marks on the tensioner when crank timing marks are at TDC. I'd take a look at those too.
These marks?
 

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Intermittent stumble, P0011 & P0012

You're running this tensioner on one of your cars?




These marks?
Yes.
However, the mark on the exhaust side goes in and out of alignment notch as the tensioner pads move up and down. I noticed it when I wiggled the crankshaft a couple of centimeters back and forth.
I am not sure if it makes it a variable timing tensioner.
By the way, how’s that engine so clean? :)


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...the mark on the exhaust side goes in and out of alignment notch as the tensioner pads move up and down.
I stand corrected on where the arrow marks are; they are on the bearing caps, not the tensioner.

Axenstar, I believe that you mean the mark on the intake side changes, because the exhaust camshaft is kept synchronized to the crankshaft, while the tensioner movement changes only the relative position of the intake cam.
 

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I stand corrected on where the arrow marks are; they are on the bearing caps, not the tensioner.

Axenstar, I believe that you mean the mark on the intake side changes, because the exhaust camshaft is kept synchronized to the crankshaft, while the tensioner movement changes only the relative position of the intake cam.
When the exhaust cam moves slightly, the intake can stands still until the tensioner reaches its top point and the chain turns the intake cam. So the exhaust cam notch moves very slightly in relation to the arrow on the cam cap.


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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Sucked it up and ordered a new tensioner and gaskets. The car would drive OK for a week, then run terrible for a day. Then OK for another week. The CEL would even go off during that time. Last week it got much worse. Stumbling all the time, bucking, generally running poorly. No weird noises or anything that would indicate a catastrophic failure was coming. Hopefully it will make it until the weekend.

I've been reading up on the replacement procedure here: https://www.passatworld.com/forums/...732-how-replace-1-8t-cam-chain-tensioner.html and watching youtube videos. I think I have it figured out, but am a little unsure about two things.
1. Why loosen the cam caps on the exhaust side if that cam stays in place.
2. Which sealant to use on the gaskets. The Bentley call for 2 different sealants. One was $80-100 for a tube. Can I just use some permatex grey or black (or appropriate color)?
 
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