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Discussion Starter #1
Somebody please help me! My car was at Circuit city yesterday for 10 hours. I have a 2001.5 passat sedan and i wanted them to install 4 speakers powered with one amp and an amp and a sub. I'm an keeping the stock HU. I also wanted them to make sure the stock tweeters worked with the system. 10 hours later they told me that they couldn't do the install becuase my car has something called anti-fire...or an active crossover or an amp somewhere in the car.
I don't have the monsoon system so i don't think there is an amp, is there? I called several other car installation places and they have no idea what c.c. is talking about.
C.C. told me that they would need my car for another day and they would have to basically take out the entire interior to find the active crossover or the amp and bypass it and they would have to wire every door seperately. They also told me that they didn't know if the tweeters would work.
Before this problem the install was costing my $480. They told me that they would need another $200 for the additional labor unless i could find out exactly where the amp or crossover was in which case it would only cost $75.
I work at a VW dealership and I was talking to the mechanics there and one told me that there are two internal amps in the car... one for the antenea which can't be bypassed or the radio won't work and another one which can be bypassed but he didn't know where it was. Another tech told me that it would be a bad idea to bypass the amp because that messes up the electrical system. He also said since I don't have the monsoon system there should be no problem with the install without bypassing any amps or whatever C.C. is talking about.
Anybody please help me. It would be greatly appreciated.
By the way... this is my first post but I have been reading the forums since I bought my car 3 weeks ago. Thanks in advance for the help.
 

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pilotB5.5 said:
Somebody please help me! My car was at Circuit city yesterday for 10 hours. I have a 2001.5 passat sedan and i wanted them to install 4 speakers powered with one amp and an amp and a sub. I'm an keeping the stock HU. I also wanted them to make sure the stock tweeters worked with the system. 10 hours later they told me that they couldn't do the install becuase my car has something called anti-fire...or an active crossover or an amp somewhere in the car.
I don't have the monsoon system so i don't think there is an amp, is there? I called several other car installation places and they have no idea what c.c. is talking about.
C.C. told me that they would need my car for another day and they would have to basically take out the entire interior to find the active crossover or the amp and bypass it and they would have to wire every door seperately. They also told me that they didn't know if the tweeters would work.
Before this problem the install was costing my $480. They told me that they would need another $200 for the additional labor unless i could find out exactly where the amp or crossover was in which case it would only cost $75.
I work at a VW dealership and I was talking to the mechanics there and one told me that there are two internal amps in the car... one for the antenea which can't be bypassed or the radio won't work and another one which can be bypassed but he didn't know where it was. Another tech told me that it would be a bad idea to bypass the amp because that messes up the electrical system. He also said since I don't have the monsoon system there should be no problem with the install without bypassing any amps or whatever C.C. is talking about.
Anybody please help me. It would be greatly appreciated.
By the way... this is my first post but I have been reading the forums since I bought my car 3 weeks ago. Thanks in advance for the help.
Firstly, run away from C.C. as fast as possible. If they have good technicians, they should already know what they are doing. They don't.

If you have a monoon system then the amp is located under the package tray in a sedan. Its pretty obvious.

Non-monsoon systems do not have an external amp. You do need to use an amp that accepts line level inputs or convert the existing line level inputs to low level for the amp.

The antenna amp just really helps AM signals not much help on FM. There is an antenna adapter that the aftermarket can get that will send 12 volts to the antenna. If the technicians don't know this, then again, run away.

Monsoon and non-monsoon speakers are different. They have different impedences. Neither set of speakers would probably work well with an aftermarket amp.
 

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Monsoon and non-monsoon speakers are different. They have different impedences. Neither set of speakers would probably work well with an aftermarket amp.
I dont see why you say that, i have an aftermarket HU and anp running to stock speakers and they sound great, at least in a relative sense. They will however be one of the next components to be upgraded.

Don't you love it when the techs come out with some elaborative explanation that isnt even near accurate, the people at best buy told me the passats are black listed because an aftermarket radio could cause the engine, brakes, or airbags to fail!!! (i attribute this to a bad misunstanding of the k-wire issue).
 

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I brought my car to Circuit City so install my amp and subs. They did it quickly in a couple of hours, had no trouble, looks completely professional. My guy seemed like this was a hobby of his, and no one knew how to do it better than him. I also have a monsoon system.
Big retails places like that hire quacks sometimes, guess I got lucky. Had a talk with him before the install, trusted him.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
tweeters

why is it that both circuit city and tweeter told me that htye don't know if they can hook the stock tweeters up to work with the rest of the system?
I've read several threads that said you basically just wire them up just like anything else. Is this true? Thanks for the help.

Sytem that I am trying to install: 4 speakers powered by one amp, one 12" sub with one amp, keep the stock tweeters and the stock HU.
 

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Sounds like me!! I just got my new 2001.5 Passat GLS (4Motion) THIS WEEK. As far as I can tell the entire stereo is stock now. Previous owner had an aftermarket Head unit (and God knows what else), but the dealer placed the stock stereo in to drop the price (again.... why?????). As a matter of fact, it's connected wrong or something so it doesn't work at all (talk about anoying... no tunes for next 2 weeks!), but I don't see that affecting my brakes or airbags anytime soon :crazy: .

Anyhow, I have a stereo going in from my previous car. Kenwood HU and 2 RF amps. 1500 Watt 4 channel going to stock speakers (for now...although I'll have to adjust the gain level accordingly) and a 500 Watt (RMS) mono amp for 2 JL subs. I'm working directly with a custom stereo shop where I bought the HU, and it's not a problem.

I'd say find a real stereo shop that knows what they're doing. Granted, there may be FEW people at C.C. or Best Buy that may know what they're doing, but not many. Sometimes people get lucky. Can't say I've ever heard of a custom stereo (for show) ever come out of C.C. or best buy, either!

Another suggestion... lose the stock stereo and go all custom. Just my opinion, but if you are going to upgrade part of it, you might as well go all out and do it right. Either way, good luck to ya! 8)
 

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Thanks to jerks like JulianFang, quality_sound, stealth32x, the moderator pass-variant, i am uncontributing
since they say i have 200posts and say i don't contribute,

this will be my last post in this website ever,
I got too many of the "older" members with high posts disliking me for pointing out the obvious, like a For Sale thread in the discussion forum (for which the mod told me to shut up and left the thread opened) and to point out a rigged contest ran by Image Dynamics, stuff like that ticked these guys off, well i must be wrong b/c i'm being lynched for pointing out what i think is obvious, well more like jerks defending other jerks when one of them is wrong

http://www.clubb5.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=895441#895441
The contest thread was deleted, but this latest episode hasn't been yet

If they're going to make this website into a totally censored forum,
http://www.clubb5.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=895441#895441 - the least you could do is let ppl voice their opinion on this thread, i for one hate that msg and the idea of this "bylaw"

i'm sure many of the jerks will be happy i'm gone,
it's been fun little boys, but i got better things to do then to enter engage in flaming discussion with old people
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for your help guys. I am going to print all this and bring it in to the guys at C.C. They have agreed to not charge me any more money and to have the master iinstaller try one more time to get my system in.

Just one question tho... can I get the stock tweeters to work? C.C. and Tweeter both said they don't know if they will work... I would have to wait until the install is done and see if they work then, which to me sounds really stupid because it would seem with all the technology in the world, that they could somehow test them before completely the install or find some way to make them work. I was told that I would most likely have to install components if I wanted tweeters. Any help with the tweeters would be great. Thanks
 

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pilotB5.5 said:
Just one question tho... can I get the stock tweeters to work? C.C. and Tweeter both said they don't know if they will work... I would have to wait until the install is done and see if they work then, which to me sounds really stupid because it would seem with all the technology in the world, that they could somehow test them before completely the install or find some way to make them work. I was told that I would most likely have to install components if I wanted tweeters. Any help with the tweeters would be great. Thanks
The Stock speakers ARE components! All you have to do is run the HU's wires into the amp, and then run the amps wires back to the wiring harness for the speakers. Its that simple; they are waaaaay overthinking this one.

(thats assuming ther amp supports line level inputs, otherwise you need to put the HU's wires into a line converter and run RCAs to the amp, but bottom line, the speakers work just like any other components, just without a really nice crossover (6db/octave higpass on the stock tweets, no filter on the mids) )
 

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supertle said:
why do u want to keep your stock tweeters for? the coaxial speakers have small tweeters on them already,
DAMN! Beat me to it!

u may throw your soundstage off having extra tweeters
It's not a a "may", it's a "will". Anytime you add extra speakers you'll have that many more point sources and you WILL have problems. If someone tells you that you need to have the tweeters up high or you won't hear them, they're an idiot.


Paul :thumbup:
 

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Hey wsup, this is my 1st time posting on this site (which is a great site)! I was wondering, someone mentioned that things get a little complicating when you have a (Monsoon) system when your switching out HU's, and speakers....why is that?
 

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Ok so where is the amp located for the monsoon system and how in the :mad: do I tweek-it? The reason why I ask is because I just switched all of my door speakers to POLK DB 650's, so I drill out the old speakers...laid my dynamat & put the new ones in but its just not sounding right! HELP PLEASE!!
 

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It's under the rear deck. You need to bypass it since you can't make any adjustments to it. To bypass it you need to take the amp's inputs and run them directly to your new speakers. You'll either need to run new speaker cabling to the new speakers OR you can splice the input wires to the mid output wires with a short piece of speaker cable.


Paul :thumbup:
 

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This thread HURTS.

A) You don't want to keep the stock tweeters. If you're not putting component speakers in to replace your stock setup, IMO, you're wasting your money. (Component speakers are 1 4"-6"mid bass speaker, 1 tweeter, and 1 cross-over) If you do deciede to run the speakers you bought, DO NOT hook up the existing tweeters. It'll throw off imaging BADLY. Not only that, but most folks REMOVE or disconnect the rear tweeters as they already scream right in your ear in stock form..

B) On the "active crossover or an amp somewhere in the car" If you have a Monsoon, you are removing and replacing the entire piece, + you are going to have to run new speaker wire from the amps to the speakers (if you're not hacking it) plus, you should run a low level converter from your deck to the amp, and will need RCA's to plug both in. (basically installing a whole new system from the deck out...)
if you have no Monsoon, basically the same thing applies, but you don't have to take OUT the existing amp (literally the only difference)

If you have any questions, please post them! there are lots of people with great info around here :) :thumbup:

Rian
 

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Rian_Colorado said:
This thread HURTS.
You're kidding right?


A) You don't want to keep the stock tweeters.
Why? Cross them over with a cap at 12-15KHz and they're great at lifting and broadening the stage without hurting the image. If they're crossed over too low or are too loud the image will be off.

If you're not putting component speakers in to replace your stock setup, IMO, you're wasting your money. (Component speakers are 1 4"-6"mid bass speaker, 1 tweeter, and 1 cross-over) If you do deciede to run the speakers you bought, DO NOT hook up the existing tweeters. It'll throw off imaging BADLY. Not only that, but most folks REMOVE or disconnect the rear tweeters as they already scream right in your ear in stock form..
Hmm. I'd take most decent coaxes over the stock comps anyday. The sonic benefits of having the mid/tweet on the same plane and time aligned are worth it by themselves. See above about the tweeters. Surprisingly, in my B5 the tweets are not to bad at all. In my J3 they're WAY too loud though. YMMV.

His car doesn't have the Monsoon system so it's REALLY simple install since he has no stock amp. The antenna amp has NOTHING to do with this install. BTW, if the new amp has high level inputs there's no reason not to use them unless the amp is a POS.


Paul :thumbup:
 

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Paul, you and I are going in much the same direction

Why? Cross them over with a cap at 12-15KHz and they're great at lifting and broadening the stage without hurting the image. If they're crossed over too low or are too loud the image will be off.
Are you suggesting that he keep the existing tweets while running additional coaxes? Personally I think that would sound like crap unless you spent a lot of time playing with locations (which he can't because he's dealing with stock locations...) I'm saying that if you're going to disconnect the stock setup, disconnect it TOTALLY. I do happen to agree about moving the sound stage up though, I actually have mine in custom pods mounted where the dash meets the windsheild and it's amazing how much higher the soundstage is..

If you're not putting component speakers in to replace your stock setup, IMO, you're wasting your money. (Component speakers are 1 4"-6"mid bass speaker, 1 tweeter, and 1 cross-over) If you do deciede to run the speakers you bought, DO NOT hook up the existing tweeters. It'll throw off imaging BADLY. Not only that, but most folks REMOVE or disconnect the rear tweeters as they already scream right in your ear in stock form..
"Hmm. I'd take most decent coaxes over the stock comps anyday."

Serisously? I've always thought the stock speakers were the strongest part of the system. The deck is by far the weakest.. Maybe I'm spoiled by having had Boston Pro comps/focal's as replacements. I personally wouldn't replace the stock speakers with coax. Seems like a lot of money and effort to gain little or nothing in terms of SQ.

"Surprisingly, in my B5 the tweets are not to bad at all. In my J3 they're WAY too loud though. YMMV."
I agree about the fronts, not bad at all. The placement of the rears in the door handles (about 6" from my left ear in a driving position) is terrible

"His car doesn't have the Monsoon system so it's REALLY simple install since he has no stock amp. The antenna amp has NOTHING to do with this install. BTW, if the new amp has high level inputs there's no reason not to use them unless the amp is a POS."
All totally agreed
 

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Rian_Colorado said:
Paul, you and I are going in much the same direction



Are you suggesting that he keep the existing tweets while running additional coaxes?
That's exactly what I'm suggesting.



Personally I think that would sound like crap unless you spent a lot of time playing with locations (which he can't because he's dealing with stock locations...)
Have you tried it? I have, numerous times, and ALWAYS on IASCA cars. What you have to realize is there is VERY little music above about 12KHz so having the extra tweets in and crossing them over at 12-15KHZ doesn't hurt the imaging and will raise and widen the stage while allowing you to keep the benefits of having the main tweeter next to the mid.



I'm saying that if you're going to disconnect the stock setup, disconnect it TOTALLY.
Why? It's not necessary.


Serisously? I've always thought the stock speakers were the strongest part of the system.
The stock comps aren't bad at all, but any mid-level coax (say around $150 and up) will blow them away, especially for clean midrange.


The deck is by far the weakest..
The HU isn't bad either, it's the lack of real power that hurts stock VW systems.

Maybe I'm spoiled by having had Boston Pro comps/focal's as replacements. I personally wouldn't replace the stock speakers with coax. Seems like a lot of money and effort to gain little or nothing in terms of SQ.
Again, have you done it? Don't suggest things if you haven't. I've got 13 years under my belt, I KNOW it works.

The placement of the rears in the door handles (about 6" from my left ear in a driving position) is terrible
I agree the positioning sucks, but even when cranked I can't tell they're even on. In my J3 it sounds like the fronts are barely playing because the rears are so loud. Some of that is because the Kickers in the front are a LOT less efficient than the stock rears.


Paul :thumbup:
 
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