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Discussion Starter #1
...(watching, not racing) and there was an '03 1.8t Passat /w the Tip tranny running. I was talking to the guy who owned the car as he was staging in the grid getting ready to go out on the course the next heat; he was telling me about the Eibach Pro-Kit he had put on his car - one of the suspension choices I am considering.

There was this great turn in the course... it was a fast sweeper which went through a moderate dip in the pavement. This one turn really showed how composed the cars reamined when the suspension was loaded, a dip was encountered in the road (while the suspension was loaded), at a moderately quick pace. Very telling of how well a car's setup.

Carefully watching every car on the course run through this turn, the Passat was not one of the best. It looked good entering the turn, moderate body roll, good grip, but as soon as it hit the dip, it really caused problems. The car got "bouncy" as the suspension tried to deal with the forces being applied to it while the suspension was already loaded. It's making me seriously reconsider my suspension choice - there just wasn't enough rebound control!

What's really interesting is one of the best cars in handling this section was a brand new Honda Civic. I don't know if the guy had done any suspension work, but it was amazing at how composed it remained. Very impressive. Worst car was a 300ZX non-Turbo - bounced like a damn basketball. He actually ended up spinning twice in that section of the course.

Abe
 

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Are you taking the weight of the cars into account? Of course the civic will handle better with less work, it weighs about 1000 pounds less. If it was an older civic with the double wishbone front suspension then it's painfully obvious it has a clear advantage in the handling department.


Paul :thumbup:
 

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What shocks was he using? That's really what's being tested there, not springs. The 300ZX problem was probably along those lines - tired old shocks.
 

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Macabre said:
What shocks was he using? That's really what's being tested there, not springs. The 300ZX problem was probably along those lines - tired old shocks.
Yeap, springs handle compression and shocks handle rebound. The Eibach Pro-System uses Eibach springs and re-badged Sach shocks and while they offer comfort very comparable to stock, they are far from being sporty or performance oriented.

A bilstein upgrade would make a world of difference even if he kept those Eibach. Otherwise a performance spring swap in combination with the shock upgrade would be the icing on the cake.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
No, I wasn't taking weight into consideration, because no matter what the weight of the vehicle the suspension should be setup so it provides proper rebound control. The Passat should have looked like that Civic as it went through the turn, though it most likely would have been going through it more slowly.

Like S_Klass said, we're really not talking about springs here, as shocks handle rebound (as well as compression, just like springs, actually). Looks like the Sach shocks that come with the Pro-System aren't quite up to the task - at least for what I'm looking for in a suspension setup.

I hate to turn this into a "suspension question thread", but what suspension setup is going to give me a 1 to 1.25 inch drop and be nice and stiff that won't have crazy reversed rake or other problems? I would love to run a Bilstein HD/H&R OE Sport setup, but from what I've read, the OE Sport springs only drop the car about .75 inches - I'm looking for just a little more than that. Also, isn't this the setup that causes the reversed rake? Though I guess that can be combatted by getting the front adjustable perched Bilstein's from Neuspeed, eh?

Abe
 

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Are you sure he was running the Eibach Pro-Dampers? Originally you just said he had "Pro-Kit" which is Eibach's name for their springs.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh... you know I'm not sure. When I was talking to him I asked if he had the "Eibach Pro-Kit" and he said "yeah". I don't know if he just didn't want to explain it to me or what. I guess I'll never really know what exactly he had. Ah well. Anyone with the Pro-System want to grab a video of their car going over a dip in the road at a moderate pace? :D

Abe
 

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And Civics these days (he did say a new one!) weigh maybe 300-500 less. Civics today are the size of Accords less then 10 yrs ago.....
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yeah, it was a brand new one, as in the newest body style - I'm surpirsed it didn't have temp tags on it. However, like I said before, it really doesn't matter how heavy it is because a properly setup suspension should be tuned for the weight of the car and provide proper rebound control regardless of how heavy the vehicle is. Yeah, it is too bad we'll never really know. I'm going to race in a couple of weekends at the next local event... maybe he'll be there and I'll get a chance to ask him what his exact setup is.

Abe
 

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abegetchell said:
...I would love to run a Bilstein HD/H&R OE Sport setup, but from what I've read, the OE Sport springs only drop the car about .75 inches - I'm looking for just a little more than that. Also, isn't this the setup that causes the reversed rake?
I have the H&R OE Sports plus Koni Yellows. No reversed rake problem. The konis are set about medium stiffness. The car is well-composed through all kinds of dips and twisty stuff. It really shines in the esses...
 

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abegetchell said:
Did the H&R OE Sports drop your car .75 inches as advertised?

Abe
Yes, they did. I think the car looks great. And, I don't have to worry about my Andybar getting ripped out from underneath the car. Kenny Payne also has the same setup - his recommendation is why I got mine.

Check out some of my track pics - you'll see I'm nicely flat in the turns:

http://home.comcast.net/~rragan7540/Passat/pics/watkinsglen.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~gmartinez17/images/car/Friends/Rusty4_28dec03.JPG
 

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Shine Racing folks discouraged me from getting springs, saying all the springs available for the Passat (even the 1BE) do nothing for handling and are only about lowering the car for sake of looks. Of course, they also said they were working on their own springs for the Passat, but I don't think they ever finished them.
 

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the eibach pro-kit is basically the same thing that audi offers as the factory sport suspension ( read it in eurotuner I believe), well, atleast the springs anyways. So you know its not really made for autocross events, just the occasional spirited run down a back road. I imagine the shocks that come with the kit are designed with this same purpose in mind. I think your best be is to either go with bilstien sport shocks and nuespeed sport springs or H&R sport springs. If you really wanna get serious at the autocross, your gonna wanna go with coilovers...that way they'll be able to offer great handling and control, and you can corner weight the car for even better handling.
 

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RechtsFahren said:
Shine Racing folks discouraged me from getting springs, saying all the springs available for the Passat (even the 1BE) do nothing for handling and are only about lowering the car for sake of looks. Of course, they also said they were working on their own springs for the Passat, but I don't think they ever finished them.
:suspicio: :crazy:

They helped me... no more body roll, I can go 15-20 MPH faster through corners, and no more dive on braking.

I am running neuspeed sports with bilstein adjustables
 

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i dunno but my fk setup handles great, i have not regrets.
 

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RechtsFahren said:
Shine Racing folks discouraged me from getting springs, saying all the springs available for the Passat (even the 1BE) do nothing for handling and are only about lowering the car for sake of looks. Of course, they also said they were working on their own springs for the Passat, but I don't think they ever finished them.
Do they work with passats specifically? I can tell a signifigant difference with my h&r's and bilsteins. I can go much faster through curves and there is much less body roll. It does look good too though.
 

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RechtsFahren said:
Shine Racing folks discouraged me from getting springs, saying all the springs available for the Passat (even the 1BE) do nothing for handling and are only about lowering the car for sake of looks.
Serious BS!

Anytime you lower the CG, even if its with no stiffer spring rates (which can reduce roll) your handling will benefit. I would'nt touch a thing they make with such self serving disinformation. Unreal...........
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hey Rusty,

What shocks are you running with your OE Sports? I was going to get the Bilstein HD's, which as I understand, are valved the same as the Bilstein Sports, they just don't have the shorter body made for a spring which lowers the car a lot. Since the OE Sports don't lower the car a lot, I figured I wouldn't need to get the Bilstein Sports... am I correct in this assumption?

I'm trying to go for a suspension setup, while being nice and stiff and making the car handle like it should handle, at the same time will also allow me to retain the driveability of the car as a daily driver - which it currently, and always, will be. So far this seems like the best setup I've been able to find.

Abe
 
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