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Demanding stuff with guns vs making change with your actions?
I wonder who will win.........
We all lose as long as the focus is on two mostly indistinguishable political groups. Either one will pander to whatever segment(s) they feel will give them the voter turnout for a victory. Look at the issues within the republican party between "real" conservatives and others. Creates some strange bedfellows.
 

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The difference between liberals and conservatives hating the President is that conservatives own guns and liberals are pacifist pansies.
Why dont you go do a fair amount of reading on Bill Ayers (not trying to connect Obama to anything here, just using him as an example of those "pacifist pansies") and let me know how many big bad conservatives with guns have done something like that.
 

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Why dont you go do a fair amount of reading on Bill Ayers (not trying to connect Obama to anything here, just using him as an example of those "pacifist pansies") and let me know how many big bad conservatives with guns have done something like that.
And what has he done lately?
 

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clemclan is offline.
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Why dont you go do a fair amount of reading on Bill Ayers (not trying to connect Obama to anything here, just using him as an example of those "pacifist pansies") and let me know how many big bad conservatives with guns have done something like that.
Wellll, there's always this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing#Timothy_McVeigh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_movement

or this and others like it:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_n5_v115/ai_20334585/

But of course, the Conservative's sweetheart Sarah Palin draws her typical, sharp distinction between a "domestic terrorist" like Ayers, and others whose behavior is only "unacceptable", like anti-abortion bombers:
http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/10/sarah-palin-bombing-abortion-clinics-is-not-domestic-terrorism
 

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Wellll, there's always this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing#Timothy_McVeigh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_movement

or this and others like it:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_n5_v115/ai_20334585/

But of course, the Conservative's sweetheart Sarah Palin draws her typical, sharp distinction between a "domestic terrorist" like Ayers, and others whose behavior is only "unacceptable", like anti-abortion bombers:
http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2008/10/sarah-palin-bombing-abortion-clinics-is-not-domestic-terrorism
So McVeigh and militia movements are "conservatives"? Are they republicans, democrats or independents? Might be hard for you to comprehend but some of these whacked out movements have their own candidates for president and such.

Thank you for illustrating an all too common misconception and bias.
 

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Whats Up Doc
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I have to say, regardless of who you vote for, or what type of sense of humor you have, this should make you sick, it sure did me. Doesn't matter who's name is on this piece of cardboard, it shouldn't be posted on here at all, much less bragged about as the photo of the year.

Having said that, I'm curious what might happen if someone was photographed today with the same guy, same sign, but Obama's name in the place of GW's. We all know that this person would be classified as a racist immediately, along with anyone that posted this proudly on any forum, and it would be deemed inappropriate.

I am not taking any political position, just noting that it seems pretty sad.
You know it!!!!! and i couldn't agree more with vdubn..... someone would be calling for their heads...... Why do i say that here is why... I was in an applebees one night having a drink and an appetizer with a friend of mine..... A lady to the left of me(in her mid 30's) who was sitting with 2 other friends made a joke that was funny so I laughed... She then told me that the only reason I was laughing at her joke was because the president was black and that I felt obligated to laugh at her joke. (she was black too)

My reply to her (after I recovered from shock and could speak) "You know what you don't even know me, and for you to sit here and make a statement like that sickens me, you should feel embarassed about what you just said as an Americian and a human." Her two friends to the left of her even chimed in and said to her somthing to the tune of "I can't even believe you just said that" and apologized for her statement.... I responded by saying "thank you but that they shouldnt feel obligated to apologize for their friends actions."

I paid my bill and left an un touched appetizer and 1/2 of a beer on the bar.....
 

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clemclan is offline.
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So McVeigh and militia movements are "conservatives"? Are they republicans, democrats or independents? Might be hard for you to comprehend but some of these whacked out movements have their own candidates for president and such.

Thank you for illustrating an all too common misconception and bias.
Neither DSIM's nor my post mentioned republicans or democrats, but rather conservatives. So I think your point of labeling with the mainstream political parties is misplaced here.

Though I agree with what I think your point is that there are "whacked out movements" on both extreme ends of the political spectrum and that Bill Ayers was associated with one on the far left, with regard to the militia movement of the '90s I think you've chosen a truly bizarre example to debate.

Who is associated with the belief that the 2nd amendment guarantees the unfettered right to bear arms? Liberals or Conservatives?

Who is associated with the desire to limit taxation and the federal government and its role in society? Liberals or Conservatives?

Were these not motivations of the militia movement of the '90s? Can you name some characteristics of the militia movement of the '90s more commonly associated with Liberals?
 

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Neither DSIM's nor my post mentioned republicans or democrats, but rather conservatives. So I think your point of labeling with the mainstream political parties is misplaced here.
I just asked the question.

Though I agree with what I think your point is that there are "whacked out movements" on both extreme ends of the political spectrum, and that Bill Ayers was associated with one on the far left, with regard to the militia movement of the '90s I think you've chosen a truly bizarre example to debate.
I just copied the link you posted as an example of "conservatives with guns".

Who is associated with the belief that the 2nd amendment guarantees the unfettered right to bear arms? Liberals or Conservatives?

Who is associated with the desire to limit taxation and the federal government and its role in society? Liberals or Conservatives?

Or were these not motivations of the militia movement of the '90s? Can you name some characteristics of the militia movement of the '90s more commonly associated with Liberals?
There are plenty of "liberals", even here in PW, that believe in the unfettered right to bear arms. Seeing you capitalize the terms, "liberal" and "conservative" tells me you're typing a whole group of people based on chararcteristics like gun ownership.

If we agree for the sake of argument that the desire to limit taxation is strictly a "conservative" ideal, it doesn't equate to the militia mindset of the federal government having no authority to tax whatsoever. Slight distinction between arguing appropriate marginal tax rates and arguing the authority of the government to tax at any level.

I think the militia groups are their own, somewhat disturbed, animal. I won't make a long list, but one could say the pro-choice position on abortion is close to how militia groups view the role of government. Stay out of my life feds.
 

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what I want to know is, why is this so far OT? this was about GWB being a really lousy preseident.
 

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what I want to know is, why is this so far OT? this was about GWB being a really lousy preseident.
32 pages of posts with a variety of short term tangents. Seemed like a pretty logical progression for a BH thread.:lol: Commenting on a previously posted picture and the mindset of the type of person in the picture who would suggest assassinating a president.
 

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it went from the main topic to finge groups on both sides of the spectrums - very far afield. hell, I love a good philospohical argument - just start a new thread about it. leave GWB's criticisms to die in peace. ;)
 

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Who is associated with the desire to limit taxation and the federal government and its role in society? Liberals or Conservatives?
The real answer: Americans.

... or have you forgotten exactly why those guys got together in 1776 and put some ink on parchment.
 

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clemclan is offline.
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The real answer: Americans.

... or have you forgotten exactly why those guys got together in 1776 and put some ink on parchment.
Oh SURE. The ranks of the tea baggers are absolutely RIFE with liberals. :rofl: Could you even type that with a straight face? I guess I should thank you for providing me with a chuckle this morning.

You guys need to decide which flag you're going to salute: Are tax and spend liberals ruining the country and trying to take over every aspect of life in America, healthcare being the latest, or are Americans of every political stripe sick and tired of an out of control federal government? The attacks on "tax and spend liberals" trying to expand government is logically inconsistent with their inclusion in a group attempting to limit the scope and reach of government, as well as limiting taxation. But you know that...

Tell you what. Go to a few news organizations or pro tea bag web sites and find some images &/or text of signs at tea bag events or tea bag philosophy and see whether you can find anything that tends to be more supportive of liberal politicians and ideas. I'll look for some supportive of the conservatives. I'll go 1st:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/12/tea.party.express/index.html
("Obama lies" image with swastica in the "O")
"...I think we've got some domestic enemies in the White House..."
"The men and women in our military didn't fight and die for this country for a communist in the White House..."
"...Both work for Our Country Deserves Better, the conservative political action committee sponsoring the Tea Party Express bus tour..."
"...They have three goals: Defeat President Obama's health care reform efforts, win back the House and Senate in 2010 and take the White House in 2012..."
"...Rare is the conversation with Russo in which he doesn't bring up the name of his idol and one-time boss, Ronald Reagan. But if there is a Reagan out there to take the reins of the tea party movement, Russo doesn't know who that person is..."
Ronald Reagan, of course, having been a well known liberal.

(Text in bold my emphasis)

http://teapartypatriots.ning.com/
(Mission statement from this website)

"CoreValues

• Fiscal Responsibility
Constitutionally Limited Government
• Free Markets

Fiscal Responsibility:Fiscal Responsibility by government honors and respects the freedom of the individual to spend the money that is the fruit of their own labor.A constitutionally limited government, designed to protect the blessings of liberty, must be fiscally responsibleoritmustsubjectit'scitizenrytohigh levels of taxation that unjustly restrict the liberty our Constitution was designed to protect. Such runaway deficit spending as we now see in Washington D.C. compels us to take action asthe increasing national debt is a grave threat to our national sovereignty and the personal and economic liberty of future generations.
Constitutionally Limited Government: We, the members of The Tea Party Patriots, are inspired by our founding documents and regard the Constitution of the United States to be the supreme law of the land. We believe that it is possible to know the original intent of the government our founders set forth, and stand in support of that intent. Like the founders, we support states' rights for those powers not expressly stated in the Constitution. As the government is of the people, by the people and for the people, in all other matters we support the personal liberty of the individual, within the rule of law.


Free Markets: A free market is the economic consequence of personal liberty. The founders believed that personal and economic freedom were indivisible, as do we. Our current government's interference distorts the free market and inhibits the pursuit of individual and economic liberty. Therefore, we support a return to the free market principles on which this nation was founded and oppose government intervention into the operations of private business. "



http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/21/tea-party-usa-the-movement-grows/
"...I’m happy to report on several new protest events now on the docket..."
Michell Malkin, of course, being a well known liberal.

OK DSIM. You're up.

Lots of anti Obama and democrat stuff, but not a single "Bush was the worst president ever" reference that I saw. (See how I'm trying to stay on topic, Jay?) :lol:
 

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I have to say, regardless of who you vote for, or what type of sense of humor you have, this should make you sick, it sure did me. Doesn't matter who's name is on this piece of cardboard, it shouldn't be posted on here at all, much less bragged about as the photo of the year.

Having said that, I'm curious what might happen if someone was photographed today with the same guy, same sign, but Obama's name in the place of GW's. We all know that this person would be classified as a racist immediately, along with anyone that posted this proudly on any forum, and it would be deemed inappropriate. No one would join the posters side in laughing about it, and they shouldn't.

I am not taking any political position, just noting that it seems pretty sad.
I didn't realize this thread was alive, or even why, but I have to respond to this. And I'm reposting the photo to point things out.



First, this photo was like 7 years into Bush's administration. At this point, no one paid any attention to this, anyone who cared figured the guy would be gone soon, good riddance. If this had appeared the first year of Bush's term, you're right, it would be considered hate. But after 2 terms of anti-Bush bumper stickers, posters, web sites, etc, this really becomes a meaningless joke.

Get back to me in 6 years, if Obama's still on the job, and we'll see what kind of stuff is flying around then.

As for the photo, it's a great shot. Look at the faces surrounding the guy holding the sign. There's a lot going on in this photo, and you can read it several different ways, including some backlash against the guy holding the sign. You can also see the very core of violence in our nation that supports the hatred you guys are complaining about. It shows how we are doing this to ourselves.

It mirrors our society.

It's great photography.
 

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clemclan said:
The attacks on "tax and spend liberals" trying to expand government is logically inconsistent with their inclusion in a group attempting to limit the scope and reach of government, as well as limiting taxation. But you know that...
Tell me about the inclusion of this group.

clemclan said:
Tell you what. Go to a few news organizations or pro tea bag web sites and find some images &/or text of signs at tea bag events or tea bag philosophy and see whether you can find anything that tends to be more supportive of liberal politicians and ideas.
Tell you what, why dont you go back over the 8 years of Bush's term and find some liberal supporters that protested IN FAVOR of Bush. You wont because they are 2 different political ideals and thats what they do.

clemclan said:
http://teapartypatriots.ning.com/
(Mission statement from this website)
Thats for that particular group, or do you assume that everyone against Obama/Liberals is a member of that group.


OK DSIM. You're up.

Lots of anti Obama and democrat stuff, but not a single "Bush was the worst president ever" reference that I saw. (See how I'm trying to stay on topic, Jay?) :lol:
This gentle take over of the Federal Govt started waaaay before Obama and Bush. The Feds have been overstepping their bounds for a long, long time. The fact that this area focuses strictly on Bush/Obama is ludicrous.

And there is a lot of nerve there calling anyone the Worst President ever, read up on Franklin Pierce... the only President in US History to NOT receive the Party nomination WHILE sitting as President.


Harvey Wallbanger said:
As for the photo, it's a great shot.
There is nothing great about any shot of a guy disrespecting the President. I dont care who you are or what kind of statement you are trying to make, THAT is WRONG. You may not like the guy but respect the Office.
 
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