[Raacerx]

There is a GT2560R ( GT28R) for sale locally near me. My other vehicle is taking most of my cash these days, but thinking of grabbing this turbo up for the future. Main question, can I run this on stock ECU tuning for a few months? I do not want or expect any power increase; I already removed my FMIC thinking I would sell the Passat but decided to keep it last minute, so I am not ready to reinstall it and buy software. I'm also too low on cash to buy software and everything else that is needed to run big PSI, but its a great deal that I don't want to pass up... but I also don't want it sitting in the garage taunting me.

Just wondering if I can run this with the stock ECU without problems until I re-install my FMIC and bite the bullet for some software and injectors and put in my S4 MAF.

I know you can run stock software with the KO4 without a problem (so I assume this will be the same), and that was my plan since I am doing a lot of work on the car in a few weeks and was going to install the KO4 (but I can keep that for the other car) until I was ready to get new software, etc... But this is even cheaper.

Also, if I ran this with a APR or GIAC KO3 ecu thats running like 16psi, would that matter? I might trade my 1 BAR Neuspeed Automatic ECU to someone for their 1 BAR Neuspeed Manual ECU; would that change anything (disregard the transmission part)? Only reason I ask, is because it would involve getting rid of the stock ECU as well as part of a package deal. From what I have read, no there won't be any problems or issues, there just won't be a power increase, but I'd like to double check before I drop a few bills.

So... Once again, I am NOT asking if merely replacing the turbo will increase power. I just want to install it so when I am ready to drop the cash on the software, I will already have the installation done. Thanks.

 

[1.8T PAWR]

no you cant... it would be a waste of time what you should do is pm me info of this seller :-D

 

[Mister T]

By the time you bought the exhaust components (manifold, flange), Inlet pipe and other odds and ends in order to mount the thing you'll be looking at probably $600-$800 on top of the turbo. While it is possible to run it on the stock ECU all you'd do is wipe out any torque that you had from 2000-3500 RPM. If you plan on keeping the passat and the price is right then get it. If not, let it go.

 

[Raacerx]

By the time you bought the exhaust components (manifold, flange), Inlet pipe and other odds and ends in order to mount the thing you'll be looking at probably $600-$800 on top of the turbo. While it is possible to run it on the stock ECU all you'd do is wipe out any torque that you had from 2000-3500 RPM. If you plan on keeping the passat and the price is right then get it. If not, let it go.

Im a welder. Building the exhaust doesn't cost anything but the cost of the flanges and the tubing. Already have a 3" test pipe. That being said, it's is an Eliminator; doesn't need a new manifold or anything like that. I am not worried about the install or things of that nature, so much as I just want to know if somehow it would trick the ECU into thinking something was wrong or whatever and throwing codes. I can run it with a 16psi GIAC or Neuspeed chip if that helps the torque issue. But I would think that most of the lag would be associated with running a high PSI file that requires a lot of spool up. But I don't know too much about how they work with software; I just know how to install the things.

034motorsports is close to me, so maybe I can purchase some software thats low key but gives me torque, and then get it reflashed later if its not too expensive. I'd like to get rid of my KO3 while its still nice and sell it.

 

[sipes216]

no you cant... it would be a waste of time what you should do is pm me info of this seller :-D

hahahahaha, nice followup :lol:

he's right, as the bigger turbo obviously spools and creates WAY more airflow, the car will end up with some pretty nasty lean codes, and could do some damage if it's throwing a bad a/f mixture in there. worst case scenario is it melts the piston and the vales. no joke.too much air vs. too little fuel = superhot reaction that can literally melt engines.

having a bad tune is NOT something you mess around with...
it's not just "oh, well it's just less efficient..."
it's actually "oh crap, this will destroy [insert REALLY long list here of EXPENSIVE parts] "

 

[euroking83]

i would say buy it, but wait until you can buy more parts to complete the turbo kit to avoid engine failure

 

[Steve in Chicago]

If it's a deal you can't pass up, buy it and store it. When you're ready for the entire install, do it all at once. If you change plans in the mean time, you can always resell it.

 

[Mister T]

OK, if it's an eliminator that's a bit of a different story, they don't need any exhaust changes. Based on that alone, if you were getting a good deal then I would buy it and even if you didn't use it then you can still probably sell it for what you bought it for. Hell, even if you're not buying it then PM me with a price if 1.8 PAWR doesn't want it. However just so you know you can pick them up new for around $1450 http://www.shop.dthaus.com/product.sc?categoryId=68&productId=87 so factor that in if it happens to be used. Now, if you happen to have a 16 PSI program available for free (I don't know if you have another ECU) or for a couple of hundred bucks then that helps matters some in terms of drivability. If you coupled this with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and some extensive VAG-COM logging you could make it work but you really need to know what you're doing. Also, the type of engine makes a difference as well. If you have a DBW (although some later DBC engines may also apply) then the fueling is already a little better. Also, I believe that the DBW cars also have a wideband O2 sensor which helps with dialing in the A/F ratios. If you have an early DBC then the fueling is pretty minimal and the O2 sensor is only a narrowband unit, so bear that in mind. I guess the point is that with enough know-how you can make any setup work. It's just a matter of how well it works and if you're willing to spend the time to set it up properly.

 

[Raacerx]

Great, thanks for the responses. Sounds like there isn't a whole lot of reason to install it right away. I have more pressing issues to deal with, like my transmission, I just like to take care of as many things as I can at once. I have a couple ECUs, but they are all for the KO3. If I get it, probably a good idea to just wait until I reinstall my FMIC and am ready to bite the bullet on the necessary fueling and software upgrades.

That being said, I think someone is going to grab it from me first. Its a great price, less then 1/3 the cost of what you listed in that link. Just needs a new internal wastegate actuator which 034 has for $70. I will probably keep the money to deal with the potential issues I know I will be running into with the Audi.

But, guess I could always swipe it up and and resell it on here. I do have a new KO4 waiting for me already, but I could always buy another one and use it for a different application. Oh, and 034 has this turbo for just under $1000. I think its like $935.

PS. I have an ATW with DBW. I also have Vag-Com and I am fairly proficient at using it. When I bought my little Asus Netbook, I didnt even realize how great it was for logging realtime data... Its freakin tiny!!!

http://www.034motorsport.com/produc...ucts_id=703&osCsid=66dakdp9igg8655u53gam7cms3 more like it...

 

[fritznh]

Hey Racer,

If you kept the boost stock (7psi) you would probably be OK, however it will not run all that well in that configuration. It won't have much for low end, but it would probably be OK up top. If you turn up the boost, you'll run out of fuel injector really fast and go lean. I would suggest keeping it in inventory until you're ready to change everything. It is a great turbo.

 

[vwb5t]

Its not a bad idea, but you will be drawing in way more air than the stock program is looking for, if i recall right you are a 2000 TIP right? i guess the good thing about that is the fueling will be able to keep up with the boost on stock programming, and if the fueling cannot keep up the car will simply go into LIMP mode to stop things from blowing up.

It can be done but i would stay out of the 4k plus RPM range, but the worse that could happen is the car goes limp and you run no PSI at WOT.

 

[EUROJUCE]

I have a GT28r setup now and have upgraded my fuel injectors due to my 2.0 build.
If you get an adjustable FPR and upgrade your fuel injectors (with lots of logging) you could be okay as others have stated. If you're set on doing this without proper programming, I am parting with my Genesis 415cc injectors that will give you more fueling in conjuction with the adjustable FPR. PM me if interested in the injectors. But again, as stated above, please look into loggin and watching your A/F ratios!

 

[Mister T]

http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_100&products_id=702[/url]

The one that they list there is 5 bolt flange type GT28r, not an eliminator GTRS. The GT28r is the one that requires a new manifold and cat flange. It also looks like you need an adapter for the compressor outlet. It's a better buy if you have a stock manifold and cat and plan on upgrading anyway. However if you've based all your mods on a K03-K04 setup (like myself) then in my mind it's too much backtracking and cost to change to a Garrett setup.

 

[Raacerx]

The one that they list there is 5 bolt flange type GT28r, not an eliminator GTRS. The GT28r is the one that requires a new manifold and cat flange. It also looks like you need an adapter for the compressor outlet. It's a better buy if you have a stock manifold and cat and plan on upgrading anyway. However if you've based all your mods on a K03-K04 setup (like myself) then in my mind it's too much backtracking and cost to change to a Garrett setup.

oops! you are correct, that is the wrong link. I think on the website the eliminator is definitely more expensive, but I don't remember it being $500 more expensive. Pretty sure it was like $1175 for the longitudinal GT28RS Eliminator, but that isn't a kit; its just the turbo.

I am not opposed to buying injectors and an FPR off the bat, but I guess it would be nice to avoid buying injectors twice and I don't want to ruin my car just cause I am impatient and want to save some time.

I do prefer to not have to baby or watch the way I drive the car too much so it is my daily driver, so it sounds like holding off on the install is the best way to go. I am going to be doing major work on the car in a couple weeks anyways for other reasons, so I figured hey, why not just throw it on during that time since it will be out of commission for awhile, but I know its easy enough to swap the turbo on these cars.

Cool. Always nice to have other opinions to cool down your excitement. I am going to try to grab it, but it will just have to sit and tease me for awhile.

 

[Mister T]

Unfortunately no dice on the eliminator GTRS series at 034. The only distributor is ATP turbo as they're the ones who make the 3 bolt flange turbine castings. They list them for about $1600 on their site but as I said you can find them for about $1450 but that's the cheapest I've seen them. The reason for the $500 difference is that you don't need to invest in the manifold, downpipe etc...

 

[Raacerx]

Unfortunately no dice on the eliminator GTRS series at 034. The only distributor is ATP turbo as they're the ones who make the 3 bolt flange turbine castings. They list them for about $1600 on their site but as I said you can find them for about $1450 but that's the cheapest I've seen them. The reason for the $500 difference is that you don't need to invest in the manifold, downpipe etc...

http://www.034motorsport.com/produc...ucts_id=703&osCsid=66dakdp9igg8655u53gam7cms3

http://www.034motorsport.com/produc...ucts_id=268&osCsid=66dakdp9igg8655u53gam7cms3

Hmm, so I guess I am a little confused on the different housings... A GT28RS made for a longitudinal 1.8T engine will have what flange to hook up to my manifold? I thought that the point of the Eliminator was to negate the need to replace the manifold. Will the Eliminator bolt on? I don't have my KO4 in front of me to compare.

 

[Mister T]

Cool, I stand corrected on 034 stocking them. However you can see that the price is still $1575. As for the T25 housing I'm not quite sure. If you want a stock location install you have to have the compressor outlet facing down. From what I've seen, all the Garret pics have the compressor outlet pointing up (same direction as the turbine inlet). Then again, if you're getting an eliminator, why would you be changing the compressor housing?

 

[Raacerx]

Well that was sure a whole lot of fuss for absolutely nothing... Checked out the turbo, good enough condition...

Too bad it has a 4 bolt exhaust manifold input connection on the turbine housing and a 5 bolt Ford style exhaust output for the exhaust... It would require a whole new T25 4 bolt manifold and converting the 5 bolt output to a V-band style, which is expensive and I hate them, or buying a 5 bolt Ford flange that makes a 3" oval and get an adapter that converts that 3" oval to a 3" round (ATP makes them) which would be $50+ plus the labor of welding it, and then fabricating a new test pipe for that... If I wanted a new manifold I wouldn't care much about the discharge output, that is easy enough to deal with since ATP makes the parts necessary... but the turbine housing is completely wrong from what he said it was originally. I can't find a good aftermarket manifold for less then $400, and I am not really looking for that large of power gains.

Add in the annoyance of making a new test pipe and buying a new wastegate actuator... and it REALLY ain't worth it to me. Still not a bad price if it was advertised as just a GT2560R and not an RS Eliminator designed to bolt right into the A4 or Passat, about half off, but the KO4 just bolts in, matches my manifold and my test pipe, and I really only wanted this Garret turbo because of the price and because it was advertised as a full eliminator made for the longitudinal 1.8T.

Either this guy got screwed when he bought it thinking he could bolt it in and is now trying to just pass it off to someone else and screw them too... or he just never really understood what was needed... I am leaning to the first one, which sucks. But Karma is a bitch... Wish it was easier to warn people about it, doesn't seem like he is very interested in changing his advertising but we will see. Says he got it off an Audi forum and he didn't install it because he is selling his car... which sounds now like a straight up lie.

Well, live and learn. At least I know a crapload more about the turbos now!!!! And I understand why the turbo kits are so much more expensive; mainly because they use a KKK turbine housing along with the Garret compressor housing. So if anyone wants to buy this knowing what it needs, I'll pass along the information. Its $500 and includes a turbo inlet pipe, so the price is good... just don't buy it thinking it will bolt in without exhaust work (the V-band adapter alone for the exhaust is $100 but you can get the oval to round pieces for $50), a new wastegate actuator, and a 4 bolt T25 aftermarket exhaust manifold. Eliminator for a Passat my ass...

 

[Mister T]

See, it all worked out in the end.

 

[Raacerx]

http://www.passatworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2255831#post2255831

Exactly what I was looking for. Decided I have bigger pressing issues with other things, but... if anyone was looking at this thread, that is a bolt in Garret turbo and a good price. They are $1500 normally. $1000 for the turbo, injectors, fpr, etc is a steal.