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Toyota, Honda and few other manufacturers are betting on the wrong horse with fuel cell. If you take a closer look, fuel cell vehicles are basically BEV + fuel cell to convert hydrogen into electricity. The allure of fuel cell over the BEV vehicle is the quicker refilling feature. However, the delivering hydrogen to the refilling station is a costly & massively complicated process in large scale. This is one of the reason most car manufacturers are going the way of Tesla and focus on BEV.

Battery technology came a long way, but it's still in it's infant stage and it will improve over time. VW is going all in with BEV pushing their 800V fast charging technology.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/technology/porsche-engineering-e-power-electromobility-800-volt-charging-12720.html
 

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I think Ford (or any other automaker considering this) is making a big mistake. SUVs (and more recently, Crossovers) are representative of a fad that comes and goes. Gas prices are on the rise, and all these people who bypass midsize sedans that get 30-something mileage will be sorry when their SUVs that are lucky to break 20 mpg will be all they have when it reaches $3.50-$4.00 a gallon. Ford will lose the opportunity to have these people trade their Explorers, etc, in for Fusions and Tauruses, and so these people will shop elsewhere. Hopefully, to VW for Jettas, Passats, and Arteons! :D I'm a confirmed sedan guy and never saw the fascination with SUVs save for a need to tow something like a boat or camper, and as for Crossovers, well, some look cool, but they are really nothing more than pregnant hatchbacks with an elevated ride height. If I were in the market for a hatch, I'd simply get a 4-door Golf for $10K less.
 

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I have thought for years that Ford should only produce trucks and vans from the F-150 up through large commercial vehicles. Lots of profit per unit and it's something they do well. The heck with passenger cars. Low margins, fickle buyers, more liability per unit, etc.

IMHO individual passenger vehicles will only be around a while longer, maybe 10 or 15 years. Phase-out may start in 5 or 6 years. Eventually people will be using on-demand, multi-passenger, autonomous, electric, passenger transports. Individual, IC engine vehicles will become too costly to operate and insure. Cost to insure will eventually "force" even the staunchest individualist to give up their rides.
 

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I sincerely pray that you're wrong. I don't like public transportation and it will be a cold day in Hell before I ever have an autonomous car. I'm an enthusiast and live for driving AND VW shows.
 

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What will you do then, when in 15 years or so, your insurance company says to you, "We see that you are still driving a non-autonomous personal vehicle, your monthly insurance premium is now $3,000. Are you aware that we provide insurance for autonomous cars for only $100 per month?"? Or even worse, "We were just informed that you were involved in an accident while driving your non-autonomous car, your monthly insurance premium will be increasing to $7,000".

I too enjoy driving myself in a manual-shift car, but less so with each passing year. There are accidents and traffic jams everywhere. People tailgate, talk on their phones, drive angry and distracted, weave in traffic, drive without their lights on at night, drive poorly in rain or snow, fail to yield, blow through stop signs and red lights, and on and on. I am very happy that I have been driving for over 40 years and only been involved in 3 minor accidents. I welcome the coming of autonomous and on-demand ride-sharing cars because they are sorely needed these days! They will provide faster, cheaper, easier and safer transportation.
 

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First of all, I disagree that insurance companies would screw people over like that, for that screams of a Totalitarian way of life. I don't object to those who would prefer self-driving cars, but being FORCED to ride in them is another matter altogether. The reasons I don't like public transportation are: a) I've been lighting up a cigarette about every 20-25 minutes of my waking life since Gerald Ford was in office, B) I don't like riding with complete strangers, and C) I like to be in control and enjoy the freedom of being alone. Also, self-driving cars won't be faster, they'll take twice as long to get anywhere as driving yourself does because they would never exceed what amounts oftentimes to ridiculously slow speed limits, (For example, if I'm on a stretch of deserted Interstate in someplace like Nevada, I'll go 90 mph), they would pause too long when lights turned green, they would follow the high school Driver's Ed policies by the book and thus back traffic up even more. No thanks.
 

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Let me give you my opinions in response to a couple of your points.

Regarding insurance companies, they will always do what they feel is in their interest to generate profits and minimize exposure to losses. That leads to my feeling that they will come to see people who drive their own cars as a very large risk and will price their insurance coverage accordingly. Obviously I just fabricated the cost numbers, but the intent was to illustrate that the risk difference between autonomous cars and human-driven cars should be significant and again, will be reflected in insurance costs.

As for autonomous cars being faster or slower, in an environment of these cars they will be faster in all cases with the exception of stoplight-to-stoplight drag races or a Bugatti Veyron on an open highway, for these reasons:

1. Interstate speeds will be increased significantly due to these cars ability to be informed of, and react instantly and cohesively to overall traffic flows. No more ebb and flow of speeds ("accordioning") in reaction to variations in individual car speeds, cars entering and exiting, lane changes, etc. So your example of driving 90 mph on a deserted highway in Nevada should become the norm even when driving through central Los Angeles! It is possible then, that driving through Nevada could be done not at 90 mph but rather at speeds well in excess of 100 mph.

2. Stoplights will no longer be needed for speed control, only for flow control. In an environment of autonomous cars, an entire string of cars would be able to launch from a stoplight together the instant it turns green. Imagine not having to wait for each driver in the 10 cars in front of you at a traffic light to: stop looking at their phones; stop fiddling with the radio; stop daydreaming, stop talking to their kids, figure out the light turned green, remove their foot from the brake and push the accelerator. For 10 cars, that process would currently take a minimum of 3 seconds, even if every driver was paying attention. With autonomous cars it would all happen in a fraction of 1 second, no matter how many cars were lined up at the light! All the cars would react simultaneously and move forward in concert. Therefore, the number of cars able to pass through in a given period of time is greatly increased.

3. In addition, stoplights will be integrated into the autonomous network to adjust on-the-fly for the traffic situation at any moment. Do you like sitting at a stoplight for 2 minutes when no cars are passing through on the green, just because the stoplight is programmed to switch every two minutes regardless of the day, time, weather, accidents, emergency vehicles, special events, etc.? Wouldn't matter if you burned rubber as soon as that light turned green, you would still be WAY behind where you be in the autonomous car scenario.

4. Autonomous cars will eliminate rubber-necking!!! Not only will they dramatically decrease accidents, but they will not be unnecessarily-distracted by an accident on the north-bound side of the highway when driving south-bound. They will still drive at 80 miles per hour, not crawl by at 5 mph so you can count the police cars or look at the damage!

5. They will be electric and therefore able to accelerate faster and more smoothly than the vast majority of IC engine cars.

Let me know your additional thoughts. BTW, I like the freedom and solitude of driving myself as well, I just recognize that those freedoms are incompatible with future transportation needs.
 

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A world in which autonomous cars become the standard would also be a world with no more automotive enthusiast community, and I'd like to think that the tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people in car clubs that longingly wait for the warm months to arrive so they can resume going to car shows (and I use that term very loosely, because the definition of "car show" itself is evolving from what was once a concours with rigid, scrutinous judging to laid-back social gatherings among people who park their prides and joys in a common field or dealership lot whether they drive a perfectly restored 50-year-old matching numbers Corvette or a 2002 Buick Century with 200,000 miles) would never allow this to happen. This isn't even taking into consideration the severe blow the economy would take due to jobs being lost. I agree that EVs are coming, but as long as they look cool and we have the choice to pilot them ourselves, clubs and gatherings will still exist. With total, mandatory autonomous transportation, the pastime would become as obsolete as a Pony Express rider of the 19th century. I don't want that to happen.
 

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0-60 in 1.9sec :icon_eek:
Tesla is gonna have to supply a special helmet to keep your brain from going flat against the backside of your skull.
That kind of torque will shear the asphalt from the ground it's laid on.
 

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Not related:
So vuvision, are you back now?
 

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Every fall I drive about 3,000 miles (4,700km) into Mexico and return in the spring.
Impossible to do with an electric car. Time to recharge at about 9 hours for a full charge and the cost of overnight stays would make it cost prohibitive.
Now how about in the snowbound freezing north where you need heat, a windshield defroster etc., what would that do to the so called range?

As for a Hy-brid, a friend had bought a Toyota Camry Hy-brid and drove a similar distance. He and his wife are "generous" sized people plus the car loaded with luggage for several months stay proved to obtain some very bad mileage, especially since they had to traverse some mountains along the way.

I'll be driving my TDI Passat until either I or the car dies !!! Can't beat the Diesel mileage, especially with a fully loaded up car.
 
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