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Discussion Starter #1
What a great post for number 400!

The

REVERSE


RAKE


DILEMA

None of these photos represent people I know or things I own 8)

I wish we could post polls, but since we can't, this will have to do.

Some members on here will think that I am "whining" about a perfectly good Eibach/Sachs drop, but quite frankly the "reverse rake" look is driving me crazy. I need to fix it.

What is the "reverse rake" look, you ask? It is a common "problem" amongst B5s and B5.5s (more common in the B5.5 I've found) where the front wheels have anywhere from .4" to .8" of extra wheel well gap than the rear wheels. In their stock form, Passats have this "problem." Your eye just doesn't catch it because there is somethign like 3.5" to 4" of wheel gap on a stock Passat! So .4" to .8" isn't a very large percentage...but when you lower the car to the point where you have 1.2" to 1.8" of wheel gap, it is a much larger percentage and a perfectionaist's eye catches it and says "that looks weird." :weirdo:

Now that I have the history out of the way, I will introduce my current setup and the solutions I've imagined.

2003 Passat GLS 1.8T Manual (the most susceptible configuration)
Eibach Pro-System (Eibach Springs & Sachs Dampers)

Solution #1:
Replace Sachs dampers with Neuspeed Bilstein grooved, adjustable height dampers and set the fronts all the way down to even the drop.
Cost: ~$425 (group buy price) plus ~$250-$300 in labor (replace all four struts at my local VW shop)

Solution #2:
Replace Eibach springs with H&R Sport springs. Not totally sure this would fix the issue since I would be pairing them with Sachs dampers, but I think it would help by at least .3" or so.
Cost: ~$210 plus ~$250-$300 in labor

Solution #3:
Buy & try ECS new slip-on coil over system. See product here. The big advantage to these besides price is I wouldn't be touching the rear suspension which I am already 100% hapy with.***Not sure if this fits the Sachs stuts and can't find an answer. Might have to just try it out (but I don't really want to do that and then find they don't fit). Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Cost: ~$140 plus ~$150 labor (Depends how hard it is to make them fit)

Solution #4:
Your suggestion!

So what should I do fellow :b5: ers?
 

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Apparently the ECS coilover add-on kit only works/fits on Bilstein sport shocks. But this is not coming from personal experience. Bilsteins have the shock body/perch design that DOES allow for the coilover add-on to work properly. Compare the Sach shocks to the Bilsteins and I think you'll notice they have a different shock body.

Of course this is only AFAIK and YMMV. :p
 

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You could get in on the GB for the Neuspeed sport springs & Bilsteins.
Then sell your Eibach system in the classifieds :wink:
To me coilovers for the street is alittle overkill if your not tracking the car and will be the stiffest setup out there. JMO
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Warped said:
You could get in on the GB for the Neuspeed sport springs & Bilsteins.
Then sell your Eibach system in the classifieds :wink:
To me coilovers for the street is alittle overkill if your not tracking the car and will be the stiffest setup out there. JMO
...and as far as I know they are $$$ compared to my listed options...unless someone can tell me otherwise!
 

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Bleser said:
Warped said:
You could get in on the GB for the Neuspeed sport springs & Bilsteins.
Then sell your Eibach system in the classifieds :wink:
To me coilovers for the street is alittle overkill if your not tracking the car and will be the stiffest setup out there. JMO
...and as far as I know they are $$$ compared to my listed options...unless someone can tell me otherwise!
As I said you could sell your Eibach system in the classifieds once your system is replaced :wink:
I dont think going with just H&R springs with sachs shocks is really the best thing to do there just not matched up to the springs as say Bilsteins.
But I could be wrong.........
 

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Well this is a tough one. If the slip on coilovers will fit thats probably the best bet. If not and you were doing the work yourself (as I will be doing soon) I would suggest trying the H&R springs first (cheapest option) and see if it helps. H&R claims a 1.75 front and 1.5 rear drop. Then if that doesn't work buy the grooved bilstiens. Problem is you could pay for labor twice. I'm going with the H&R sports and grooved bilsteins. Coilovers are just to much $ for me drop on a non track car.

Best thing to do would be to call ECS and find out if the slip on coilovers will work with your springs. If not, then buying a complete new grooved bilsteins/H&R sport spring set up might be the way to go. Sure you pay about 600 for parts but you could probably get 300 to 400 back by selling your existing setup.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
V-MANN said:
Well this is a tough one. If the slip on coilovers will fit thats probably the best bet. If not and you were doing the work yourself (as I will be doing soon) I would suggest trying the H&R springs first (cheapest option) and see if it helps. H&R claims a 1.75 front and 1.5 rear drop. Then if that doesn't work buy the grooved bilstiens. Problem is you could pay for labor twice. I'm going with the H&R sports and grooved bilsteins. Coilovers are just to much $ for me drop on a non track car.

Best thing to do would be to call ECS and find out if the slip on coilovers will work with your springs. If not, then buying a complete new grooved bilsteins/H&R sport spring set up might be the way to go. Sure you pay about 600 for parts but you could probably get 300 to 400 back by selling your existing setup.
I sent ECS and E-mail asking whether or not they would fit the Sachs/Eibach setup and they simply said "they were designed for Bilstein struts only" which I took as a "no." But other people have said you may be able to get them to fit...

I am leaning towards buying the grooved bilstein struts with either H&R sport springs or Neuspeed Sport Springs and selling my current setup as most people have suggested. Not sure which would be better but I doubt there is much difference.

As you stated, true coil overs are just too much money!
 

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Bleser said:
V-MANN said:
Well this is a tough one. If the slip on coilovers will fit thats probably the best bet. If not and you were doing the work yourself (as I will be doing soon) I would suggest trying the H&R springs first (cheapest option) and see if it helps. H&R claims a 1.75 front and 1.5 rear drop. Then if that doesn't work buy the grooved bilstiens. Problem is you could pay for labor twice. I'm going with the H&R sports and grooved bilsteins. Coilovers are just to much $ for me drop on a non track car.

Best thing to do would be to call ECS and find out if the slip on coilovers will work with your springs. If not, then buying a complete new grooved bilsteins/H&R sport spring set up might be the way to go. Sure you pay about 600 for parts but you could probably get 300 to 400 back by selling your existing setup.
I sent ECS and E-mail asking whether or not they would fit the Sachs/Eibach setup and they simply said "they were designed for Bilstein struts only" which I took as a "no." But other people have said you may be able to get them to fit...

I am leaning towards buying the grooved bilstein struts with either H&R sport springs or Neuspeed Sport Springs and selling my current setup as most people have suggested. Not sure which would be better but I doubt there is much difference.

As you stated, true coil overs are just too much money!
That group buy for the Neuspeed springs for $155 to the door is the best value that can be had. The whole transaction was just so smooth.
Then add the Bilsteins for $425 to the door and boy it is one sweet suspension.
I racked my brain on suspension for almost the whole winter and I glad I got in on that group buy :D To my surprise the coils were Black in color which I like, to some it does not matter.
You should get around $400 for your Eibach system I would say!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Warped said:
Bleser said:
V-MANN said:
Well this is a tough one. If the slip on coilovers will fit thats probably the best bet. If not and you were doing the work yourself (as I will be doing soon) I would suggest trying the H&R springs first (cheapest option) and see if it helps. H&R claims a 1.75 front and 1.5 rear drop. Then if that doesn't work buy the grooved bilstiens. Problem is you could pay for labor twice. I'm going with the H&R sports and grooved bilsteins. Coilovers are just to much $ for me drop on a non track car.

Best thing to do would be to call ECS and find out if the slip on coilovers will work with your springs. If not, then buying a complete new grooved bilsteins/H&R sport spring set up might be the way to go. Sure you pay about 600 for parts but you could probably get 300 to 400 back by selling your existing setup.
I sent ECS and E-mail asking whether or not they would fit the Sachs/Eibach setup and they simply said "they were designed for Bilstein struts only" which I took as a "no." But other people have said you may be able to get them to fit...

I am leaning towards buying the grooved bilstein struts with either H&R sport springs or Neuspeed Sport Springs and selling my current setup as most people have suggested. Not sure which would be better but I doubt there is much difference.

As you stated, true coil overs are just too much money!
That group buy for the Neuspeed springs for $155 to the door is the best value that can be had. The whole transaction was just so smooth.
Then add the Bilsteins for $425 to the door and boy it is one sweet suspension.
I racked my brain on suspension for almost the whole winter and I glad I got in on that group buy :D To my surprise the coils were Black in color which I like, to some it does not matter.
You should get around $400 for your Eibach system I would say!
Unless people read this post and try to steer clear of it... :nervous:

So is the only reason you went with Neuspeed springs vs. the H&R springs is the price? Who makes the Neuspeed springs - Neuspeed??
 

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Definitely solution #1

I would go for the ECS grooved Bilsteins to replace your current dampers. They will cure your rake if adjusted properly up front; you won't even need to go all the way down with them; just one groove down from stock height to even it. IMO, It would be a waste to go with H&R springs since you already have great Eibach springs on.

You want to upgrade what you have not yet upgraded, not re-upgrade what you've already upgraded, that would be an out-and-out waste of money.

As far as the Eibach / ECS-Bilstein grooved combo is concered, it's great! I've had it for quite some time and have no complaints. :bow:

pm me w/ any specific questions...

-harry :drink:
 

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How much difference are you talking about? If it is 3/8" and you still have the
stock high-vin perches,buy some low-vin perches and be done. It willl be cheaper.
If it is more than that,look into the Bilsteins. You should not pay that much for labor for just the front perches.

If you are up for a 7 hour road trip,come on down. I work cheap..
 

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I would recommend the H&R sports as my '03 variant has a perfectly even drop front and rear... but I didn't change the stock shocks since the car is only 7 months old. I didn't realize that shocks made that much of a difference. Should I have changed my shocks when I added the H&R's? Are Bilsteins the best shock to use with the H&R's? Sorry about all the questions.
 

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I just put on the ebach pro system. Unless I am totally out of it (very possible), the ebach shock spring perch was welded to the shock body. That would make use of the ECS kit hard to use (or the low vin spring perches for that matter). I would like to lower the front of my car also, but I dont want to give up the matching damping with the springs rates. So if I am wrong on the perches, I would certainly change to the lower ones. Can any enlighten me?

Thanks, Ray
 

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rfenti said:
I just put on the ebach pro system. Unless I am totally out of it (very possible), the ebach shock spring perch was welded to the shock body. That would make use of the ECS kit hard to use (or the low vin spring perches for that matter). I would like to lower the front of my car also, but I dont want to give up the matching damping with the springs rates. So if I am wrong on the perches, I would certainly change to the lower ones. Can any enlighten me?

Thanks, Ray
Ray 3X a charm! Maybe Bel would have that answer :???: Glad my suspension came out nice, had mine done right before yours :)
 

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Ray, I think you just confirmed it for me and the others, the perch on the Sach shocks (a la Eibachs) are welded onto the shock body and that's why the ECS kit would not be feasible.

You are left with option #1 or #2 Bleser.
 
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