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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, while my baby is in the shop, I have decided to get a handful of parts that I have been putting off until later. One of these parts is upgrading the brakes. On top of the added performance, I am also concerned w/looks. I feel that with nicer rims on the car, I don't want cheap brakes peaking out from behind them. After a little research I have narrowed it down to ECS's Stage I or Stage II (versions 1 or 2) brake system.



Stage I seems to be the best as far as budget goes. However, I am afraid that it might not be as nice as I would like. I admit, I do not need the stopping power of Stage II, but I am really attracted to the looks of stage II more, just not sure if I want to double the cost in order to get Stage II. Rotor size: 13.1"



Stage II Version 1 actually has a smaller rotor (12.3") that will allow me to put 16" rims back onto the car. This can be a plus for useability, but since I plan on selling my stock rims, I am not sure if I am going to need this function. Although it does have the Porsche pads and calipers I have been dreaming of since I got the car, the smaller rotor size turns me off to this option.



Stage II V2:
This is the one I want. For some reason, I like this even more than Stage III. I know it is overkill, but I am really attracted to this particular package. I have just enough funds to get this one as well, but wonder if by going with a cheaper package I could save some money for other mod's/gf/Roth IRA...

Upgrade Kit
I couold always go with Stage I and upgrade to Stave II v2 at a later date.

What are your opinions of these three packages? Any comments from someone who has any of these would be great. Will these cut down on brake dust? Will, for any reason, this upgrade hurt daily driving braking? My car has 60,000 miles, so it can't hurt to upgrade the braking at this point in time either, can it? How much would a shop charge for installing these? Should I plan on purchasing a rear brake upgrade? Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Website:
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/edpd...model=Passat B5&submodel=FWD&category=Braking


Thanks in advance for your time.
 

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I'm in the same boat...

I finally decided to purchase the Stage IIv1 setup. I'm buying mine in pieces though. Don't have $1500 to shell out at once. I purchased a set of A8 rotors from ECS last month and I just purchased the Hawk HPS brake pads for the kit last week. I'll get the rest of the kit on my birthday hopefully.

I'll admit I'm buying the kit for looks as well but I also bought it because I plan tracking my car later this summer in NH. The extra braking power should be helpful.

A lot of guys buy BBK's because they don't like the look of the small rotor and caliper behind their monster 18's or 19's.

Good luck....
 

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if brake dust is a worry...absolutely stay away from the hawk hps brakes. My silver superleggeras look like they are gunmetal now, so they require a lot of maintenance.

I'd consider a set of axxis pads, etc. if you're not going to be tracking the car.

The other thing to consider with the stage 2 ver 2 (which I have) is wheel clearance. With the larger rotors, you'll really need to check clearances (especially if you are considering using wheels with dish/lip).
 

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Careful with Stage II. Yes, you "can" use 16" rims from a diameter standpoint, but the offset is REALLY what you need to be concerned with. The Porsche boxsters appear small but they are actually a bit wider since we are talking about 4 pistons as opposed to one. Someone asked us once (AJCHENPH) about the 16" Montreals I think, and while I was doing a suspension job on a car with exactly those rims, I put them on my car (I have this setup) and we took a picture of it: we "slipped" in a piece of copier paper between the spoke and the caliper! It was that close! We could spin the rim and it never touched but we decided that was too close; with possible flex and heat expansion, it's likely it would of scrapped at some point.

So always check your offset with 16" rims anyway. If you can clear the calipers by 2mm, I'd say you're very safe.

BTW: I finally installed the ECS 12.3" 2pc. rotors this evening along with the Hawk HPS. Only have a couple of miles on it and it seems to be ok but I haven't really heated up the pads yet; so they're not stopping quite that good as of yet. Tommorrow's commute will really bed them; we'll see what happens then. What still amazes me is these rotors are actually lighter than the 11.3" OEM rotors!
 

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The dusting issue has more to do with the type of pads you use and not the caliper. Leave your rear brake alone unless you know what your doing!! You'll screw up your brake bias royally!!! Paint your calipers if you like but don't try putting on larger rear rotors or calipers.

Good Luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Want to get me kit while your at it?
Hey, your half the reason I'm modding like a mad man while the car is in the shop. I need to stay one step ahead of you.

Leave your rear brake alone unless you know what your doing!! You'll screw up your brake bias royally!!! Paint your calipers if you like but don't try putting on larger rear rotors or calipers.
Good, since I am saving money by not getting the rears, I can go with the SII v2's in the front without a budget problem. I am undecided what color to go with. I have no red on the car, so I will stay away from the typical red Porsche calipers. The black and silver ones are fighting each other for my personal favorites constantly. :p
 

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Darold2002 said:
I am undecided what color to go with. I have no red on the car, so I will stay away from the typical red Porsche calipers. The black and silver ones are fighting each other for my personal favorites constantly. :p
Remember the ECS charges $100 for the black kit. I'm still undecided as well. I'm either going with red or silver. The red is nice because its an eye catcher.
 

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When upgrading your brake system to improve braking, then let there be dust!

Just pick out a most street aggressive pads you can find within the budget and stay away from those dustless pads.

Dustless = Stopless!

If you're thinking about using dustless pads on the porsche brake calipers, then save your money and spend it else where. Unless you're into looks and show off the porsche calipers on your VW.
 

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Some very usefull replies here.
My take in the ECS kits is as follows:
If you plan on running 18/19" rims then 13.1" 2PC would look best
The 12.3" would still look small on those large rims.
If you plan on runnning 16/17" rims then 12.3" 2pc looks best
If you then want improved performance go the version 2 kits with the Porsche calipers.
The larger rotors and pads with stock calipers will give less fade but not necessarily improved stopping power.

HermanH said:
BTW: I finally installed the ECS 12.3" 2pc. rotors this evening along with the Hawk HPS. Only have a couple of miles on it and it seems to be ok but I haven't really heated up the pads yet; so they're not stopping quite that good as of yet. Tommorrow's commute will really bed them; we'll see what happens then. What still amazes me is these rotors are actually lighter than the 11.3" OEM rotors!
Herman interesting you say that -I ended up going with the 12.3" 2pc (stock caliper ttcarrier) + Hawk HPS pad and that was my exact impression compared to the stock brakes. I think the extra leverage with the TT carrier means I have to stomp harder on the brakes than with stock. The pads definitely perform better when hot and dont feel like they fade compared to stock but I have to press harder on the brake pedal.
Maybe it simply the HPS pads being a little more performance oriented.

But as for dust - julianfang I dont know what you mean! The HPS are VERY dustless compared to the stock pads I had.
Over all I'm happy with the ECS kit and the 12.3" A8 2pc was right for me.
 

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Kosmas: this morning's commute was a "gentle" one. I believe the Hawk HPS are more performance oriented but I don't feel like really stomping on them yet to find out; I want to put a full tank through them first; gas prices being what they are, I'm not trying to get to work in a hurry anymore. :)

The Kerr Friction "street" pads may end up being the best pads I had to date - little time to warm up and with the old A8 rotor combo, it took the autocross w/o any fade. Then again, keep in mind the highest attainable speeds in an autocross is only 40mph. But I still managed to cook the pads (i.e. smell of pad material in the air!)
Mintex Reds - will fade after repeated stops (about 5-6 to be a bit more accurate, from 60-10mph) and in the case of the clamping force of the calipers, deposited too much pad material due to being insufficient in the heat ranges I was subjecting them too.
So we'll see what the Hawk HPS's do. I'm just damn happy that the "warped" feeling has finally disappeared. I didn't even need to index my rotors! :) :) :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I am a little concerned with brake dust. Although the wheels will not be hard to clean, I would prefer to have as little brake dust as possible. The Stage 2 Kit comes with Hawk pads, so should I switch them to Axxis ones for less dust? Also, I was wonedering about Cross drilled and slotted, plain or just slotted. I know that the cross drilled AND slotted look the most aggressive, but are they the "best"?

Thanks again everyone for your help on this.

Remember the ECS charges $100 for the black kit.
From what I can see, the website says the black ones are $100 less than the others.
 

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Darold2002 said:
I am a little concerned with brake dust. Although the wheels will not be hard to clean, I would prefer to have as little brake dust as possible. The Stage 2 Kit comes with Hawk pads, so should I switch them to Axxis ones for less dust? Also, I was wonedering about Cross drilled and slotted, plain or just slotted. I know that the cross drilled AND slotted look the most aggressive, but are they the "best"?

Thanks again everyone for your help on this.
The amount of brake dust also depends on how you drive/stop with the set up. However, in general normal driving/stopping, most performance pads wil dust more than the OEM front sets. The rear OEM pads dust as much as the performance pads already.

As for the choice of rotors, x-drilled or slotted will make the pads dust even more compared to the plain ones. These types of rotor will play a role in stopping characteristic as well, but the best stopping in a dry day will come from the plain rotors due to most surface area contact with the pads. The x-drilled or slotted will help most in the wet braking, but won't play a big roll in performance other than runing little cooler than the plain rotor due to less overall friction via less pad surface contact area.

BTW, PBR/Axis Ultimate pads will dust as much or more than the Hawk HPS pads. These front pads will dust as much as the OEM rear pads when installed with ECS Stage II v2 kit with x-drill/slotted rotor.(this is what I have)

I think most pads will dust comparably, but some pads just make blacker dust than the other and becomes more noticeable.
 

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You guys really should look in to the Carbotech Bobcat pad. Carbotech is dominating local club racing with their Panther Plus and Panther XP compounds. The Bobcats are an awesome pad, low dusting, no noise, and very grippy compared to stock.

I'm using them now, and VERY happy with them. Less dust than HPS, better bite than Mintex, and longer lasting than the EBC Greens I used.

They're pricey pads, but well worth it..
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thank you for all the info regarding the dust issues. I think I will just stop worrying about the dust problem since the new rims aren't as complex as the old ones, and cleaning them shouldn't be a problem. If I do decide to go with the brakes at all, I think I will have to opt for the Stage II v2's with cross dilled and slotted in either black or silver.

Any recomendations on a shop that I could get to install these? I live on a college campus with no tools or garage space. How much should I expect to pay for instalation?


Again, thanks for all the great advice.
 

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If you are up for a drive... Head on over to Scuba's Garage in CHS. Ive got the tools needed to swap all this out and Ive had a few B5 brake jobs under my belt.

Im also going to be looking for new brakes here within the coming year as well. I think that I already have my mind made up for the Stage 2, V2's. I am really thinking of staying away from the red calipers this time... but its almost a tradition to have red Porsche calipers. Most VW's with upgraded brakes have red calipsers, but because of this... I may go with the silver.. which I would suggest as well.

Pads, Ive no idea which to suggest, but for the time being, I would stick with the set that comes with the kit and wear these out.

HTH,
Steve
 
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