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... yet another example of what happens when money takes over Washington.

Halliburton in Iraq.

Oil companies in Alaska.

A pox on Bush and his money-grabbing buddies. A pox on them for draping this crap in the flag and calling it patriotic. A pox on them for spending more money on finding dino crap than developing alternatives. A pox on them for putting their own careers and pocketbooks before the good of the country and the good of the planet.

No reason to drill there. Absolutely none.

:mad: :thumbdown

And this is the last time I'll read this thread. :)
 

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But drilling in ANWR is going to do a lot to rid our dependence on Middle Eastern oil. In 10-15 years when that oil is flowing we'll be free, even if the output will only be ~ 2.5% of our annual oil useage.

:rolleye:
 

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I've been to ANWR, it'll have much less impact than the pipeline and it has not been a negative on the environment for the most part. It's the citizens of Alaska that really want it opened up bad.
 

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How about we change our needs....and stop depending on these resources the least as possible......we use 1/3 rd of the world power, WHY?

I would look into basics...before I would start looking for more. The more we use....worst off we are.....harder we will fall when there is no more or the prices rise.

But then again, they want us to keep burning oil.....people never get enough of money.

:banghead: :poke: :mad: :mad: :mad:

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passaturbonium said:
How about we change our needs....and stop depending on these resources the least as possible......we use 1/3 rd of the world power, WHY?

I would look into basics...before I would start looking for more. The more we use....worst off we are.....harder we will fall when there is no more or the prices rise.

But then again, they want us to keep burning oil.....people never get enough of money.

:banghead: :poke: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Yup! They want demand to far outpace supply. They know it's an unsustainable system so they want to reap the biggest reward NOW while the oil is flowing. Then build the infrastructure while supply is big then when it starts to dry up the infrastructure is already paid for so they can reap MASSIVE profits when the price skyrockets and it costs them LESS per barrel to supply it. The oil companies are setting up for a windfall profit taking within 15 years... then supply will be too short to continue, price will be too high and we will demand an alternative... Say hello to soy based plastics! Well that's probably smarter anyhow. Probably cheaper too...
 

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Urlik said:
I've been to ANWR, it'll have much less impact than the pipeline and it has not been a negative on the environment for the most part. It's the citizens of Alaska that really want it opened up bad.
My ass it will have less impact. They can tote their "new technologies" all they want, but little of it is actually new and almost none of it has been or will be used unless the government makes them. At which point they will play the "it costs too much and the whole damn economy is going to collapse if you make us do it card" Then they will come out with some bullshit program that does nothing like the "new mercury rules" or the "clear skies iniative" :puke:

As for the alaskans
That's because the Alaskans get a % of the money made from oil revenue. Who wouldn't want free money, plus they MAY get more jobs, it's just really sad that we need to trounce all over one of the few remaining relatively untouched area to do this. It's all politics as usual, the rest of the US will likely nver see any tangible benefit from this. It's just a sucker punch from oil companies. May they all burn in Hell :thumbup:

And I fully agree with Spirare, it's not exactly rocket science to see what they're really after.
 

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passaturbonium said:
How about we change our needs....and stop depending on these resources the least as possible......we use 1/3 rd of the world power, WHY?

I would look into basics...before I would start looking for more. The more we use....worst off we are.....harder we will fall when there is no more or the prices rise.

But then again, they want us to keep burning oil.....people never get enough of money.

How'd you get to work today?
You don't have to keep burning oil if you don't want to.
 

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Speaking of oil...what happened to the idea that oil revenues from iraq would finance the war...er..liberation over there?
 

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You don't even need to buy a ugly ass Hummer. I'm pretty sure you can write off an Escalade as a commercial vehicle LMAO
 

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Our dependence for oil from the Middle East is not all true. In total we only get 12-14% of our oil from the Middle East. Canada gives us more that the Middle East! What we need to do is reduce our dependence rather than continuing to feed our compulsions to buy-buy-buy. Many people believe that reducing anything means reducing their happiness. In reality if we could learn to live with less and be happy with that the world would be a cleaner happier place. For one thing many of us would not have to work as much. Think about how much it costs you to have what you have and how many work hours it takes to fullfill your so called needs.

Okay. Here is where I have to join with you. I am gullty as well. The fact that I exist and consume means that the world is suffering. However, I am a one car family with two kids and my wife. I commute on my Bike to work everyday all year round and I bought a used vehicle rather than new. Just these few things reduces dependence and impact on natural resources. It also means that I work less and spend more time at home with my family. If you saw the way I live you may think I am depriving myself and my family. If you understood the meaning of "dependence" "Instant Gratification" and "Selfishness" you would gain a better understaning of what our "consumption" menas not only to each of us but the entire world.

Politically, Bush sucks and he stands for many things that I disagree with. Unfortunately, he was reelected and it is what it is.

Warm regards, Keith
 

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tdifamily said:
Okay. Here is where I have to join with you. I am gullty as well. The fact that I exist and consume means that the world is suffering.
What a sad way to look at one's own existence. I can only see one way for you to give meaning to your life that causes the world such suffering... :whistle:
 

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There are parts of ANWR that are absolutely picturesque and should be protected. However, the part being explored for oil is LITERALLY frozen dirt.

Also, if the President's Energy Bill would have passed, it would have added subsidies to smaller (less than 10 barrels a day) wells within the United States. You see, when these small wells need to produce 15 barrels a day to stay profitable, but are only pumping-out say 7, they shut down.

If we subsidized these small, usually privately owned (as in not corporate) wells, the additional domestic oil output will exceed what we are currently getting from Saudi Arabia. In other words, if we subsidize the small wells, we could, theoretically, stop getting our oil from SA. We'll still have to rely on many other “gulf states,” but its a set in the right sirection.

I hope the Energy bill makes it through next time.
 

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I think TDIfam's point is quite obvious without digging through his sentence structure looking for a means to attack. I know quite a few people who live like him, and I also try to do so. I went all last winter with no car, and would continue to have gobs more cash if I hadn't decided to place a low-ball bid on my passat at an auction...and win. I now like it too much to sell it, plus I don't think I'll ever find such a perfect car for me at such a low price. Anyway, more power to you TDI, I know there are many like you, and give I give you props for doing your best.
 

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JamesBondage said:
There are parts of ANWR that are absolutely picturesque and should be protected. However, the part being explored for oil is LITERALLY frozen dirt.
Not to mention they have no way of comprehending the size of ANWR versus the leasing area. They want to develop 2000 acres in land the size of South Carolina.
 

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JamesBondage said:
There are parts of ANWR that are absolutely picturesque and should be protected. However, the part being explored for oil is LITERALLY frozen dirt.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder ;) , and ANWR has more to offer than picturesque landscapes. The "frozen dirt" you speak of is much more succeptible to damage and disturbance than the lands we think of. Truth is we use way more energy than we need to, even to maintain the exact same quality of life, all it takes is a little initiative. If you took all the people who were fighting on both sides of the ANWR issue and told them to implement conservation measures that would in no way decrease quality of life and gave them the same resources and man-hours to work on it, we would likely be in a better place. But, that brings us back to the oil industry driving our politics, and we've already been over that. :confused:
 

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passaturbonium said:
I take the train...

But how does 3-4 billion others get to work around the world?
So you burned oil too?
 
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