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Re: Citizen spies: good or bad? (ajchenmph)

Unfortunetly that site is left-wing, so thier take is slanted as would a right-wing site.

I would like to see a story on this that is not slanted but neutral, but that is impossible in this country....with that said...

I agree with this approach. Had just one person at the filght schools where these hijackers wanted to learn to fly/turn the planes and were not interested in landing or taking off, asked a simple question, informed the FBI of what these guys were asking/wanting to learn, just maybe we could have prevented this.

I do not advacate spying on people, but I do like the ideal that people that are citzens taking a active role in protecing themselves, others and the country....

Too often in the U.S. people do not want to get involved or they want to turn a blind eye, bury thier head in the sand. To combat terror we ALL must take a active role in Homeland Security. I know that since 9/11 I have upped my situational awareness in public places, my neighborhood. As citzens we have a obligation to do that, IMO. The Government cannot, and should not be asked to carry the entire burden.

Will there be abuses? Yes there will be, that happens all the time. Can we still be vigilant and safeguard our Liberities? Yes. We must temper our resvolve with caution. By doing that we can make this a safe and free land for everyone.

I think that the Civil rights groups and the media have blown this out of proprtion, as usual, and until the full text and the plan is unveiled, we should wait and see.....




<![CDATA[Unfortunetly that site is left-wing, so thier take is slanted as would a right-wing site.

I would like to see a story on this that is not slanted but neutral, but that is impossible in this country....with that said...

I agree with this approach. Had just one person at the filght schools where these hijackers wanted to learn to fly/turn the planes and were not interested in landing or taking off, asked a simple question, informed the FBI of what these guys were asking/wanting to learn, just maybe we could have prevented this.

I do not advacate spying on people, but I do like the ideal that people that are citzens taking a active role in protecing themselves, others and the country....

Too often in the U.S. people do not want to get involved or they want to turn a blind eye, bury thier head in the sand. To combat terror we ALL must take a active role in Homeland Security. I know that since 9/11 I have upped my situational awareness in public places, my neighborhood. As citzens we have a obligation to do that, IMO. The Government cannot, and should not be asked to carry the entire burden.

Will there be abuses? Yes there will be, that happens all the time. Can we still be vigilant and safeguard our Liberities? Yes. We must temper our resvolve with caution. By doing that we can make this a safe and free land for everyone.

I think that the Civil rights groups and the media have blown this out of proprtion, as usual, and until the full text and the plan is unveiled, we should wait and see.....




[Modified by MeinPassat, 8:34 AM 7/17/2002]
 

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Re: Citizen spies: good or bad? (ajchenmph)

Greeting neighbors...come on now...why would I want to spy on someone? I do agree we as citizens should be wary, but I am not spying on my neighbors. If I see people loading up bombs, making terroristic threats, have 1 too many rental trucks in their yard etc......along those line....then yeah.

However I do hold the government soley responsible for ensuring our homeland security as well as keeping our civil liberties intact and monitoring those who are "supposed" to enforce those civil liberties. Why the hell do we have all those governmental agencies? We can help them do their jobs effecively but asking to spy is too much


<![CDATA[Greeting neighbors...come on now...why would I want to spy on someone? I do agree we as citizens should be wary, but I am not spying on my neighbors. If I see people loading up bombs, making terroristic threats, have 1 too many rental trucks in their yard etc......along those line....then yeah.

However I do hold the government soley responsible for ensuring our homeland security as well as keeping our civil liberties intact and monitoring those who are "supposed" to enforce those civil liberties. Why the hell do we have all those governmental agencies? We can help them do their jobs effecively but asking to spy is too much


[Modified by Mister_Rogers, 9:14 AM 7/17/2002]
 

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Re: Citizen spies: good or bad? (ajchenmph)

That website is so slanted and spotty that it would be impossible to actually discern any facts from it! Nonetheless, how do you think the CIA, FBI, NSA, etc.. recruit people? They put an ad in the paper. They approach military personnel. Set up booths at Universities. I don't think the basic idea of approaching citizens is truly anything new or outlandish. From what I read about this TIPS program, however, they are not asking citizens to be "spies", as that website would have you believe. They are simply asking people to pay attention. They are targeting industries with higher levels public contact to raise their awareness and asking them to report any suspicious activities that my encounter in the course of the daily work. In other words, use common sense and be a good citizen.
http://www.citizencorps.gov/tips.html

In addition, the Patriot Act is much more robust than the scant piece of garbage that website eludes to. Throughout the history of this country, we have given up some freedoms during wartime. Unfortunately, in this day and age we have a tendency to quickly forget that there still is a serious threat and battles continue. A battle today is much different and requires much different tactics than the battles of even 30 years ago. It is very obvious that some of our laws are inadequate given today's technology. All that said, however, in general I don't like the idea of a government "spying" on it's citizens without a foundation showing that a particular person is the target of a criminal investigation. Although I am leery of this portion of the Act, as a temporary wartime solution I'm accepting of it. It becomes a much more complicated issue, however, when a war is not declared and an end date is not easily identified. I'm certain it will be tested by a civil liberties organization at some point.

MeinPassat: As far as your comments on the flight schools are concerned, a flight school in one of our local suburbs did question the motives of one of the individuals, Zacarias Moussaoui, attempting to obtain flight training. The instructor at the school contacted the Minneapolis branch of the FBI who then arrested him on immigration charges while they unsuccessfully attempted to esculate the issue to Washington.



<![CDATA[That website is so slanted and spotty that it would be impossible to actually discern any facts from it! Nonetheless, how do you think the CIA, FBI, NSA, etc.. recruit people? They put an ad in the paper. They approach military personnel. Set up booths at Universities. I don't think the basic idea of approaching citizens is truly anything new or outlandish. From what I read about this TIPS program, however, they are not asking citizens to be "spies", as that website would have you believe. They are simply asking people to pay attention. They are targeting industries with higher levels public contact to raise their awareness and asking them to report any suspicious activities that my encounter in the course of the daily work. In other words, use common sense and be a good citizen.
http://www.citizencorps.gov/tips.html

In addition, the Patriot Act is much more robust than the scant piece of garbage that website eludes to. Throughout the history of this country, we have given up some freedoms during wartime. Unfortunately, in this day and age we have a tendency to quickly forget that there still is a serious threat and battles continue. A battle today is much different and requires much different tactics than the battles of even 30 years ago. It is very obvious that some of our laws are inadequate given today's technology. All that said, however, in general I don't like the idea of a government "spying" on it's citizens without a foundation showing that a particular person is the target of a criminal investigation. Although I am leery of this portion of the Act, as a temporary wartime solution I'm accepting of it. It becomes a much more complicated issue, however, when a war is not declared and an end date is not easily identified. I'm certain it will be tested by a civil liberties organization at some point.

MeinPassat: As far as your comments on the flight schools are concerned, a flight school in one of our local suburbs did question the motives of one of the individuals, Zacarias Moussaoui, attempting to obtain flight training. The instructor at the school contacted the Minneapolis branch of the FBI who then arrested him on immigration charges while they unsuccessfully attempted to esculate the issue to Washington.



[Modified by J-RAD, 9:53 AM 7/17/2002]
 

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Re: Citizen spies: good or bad? (J-RAD)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>MeinPassat: As far as your comments on the flight schools are concerned, a flight school in one of our local suburbs did question the motives of one of the individuals, Zacarias Moussaoui attempting to obtain flight training. The instructor at the school contacted the Minneapolis branch of the FBI who then arrested him on immigration charges while they unsuccessfully attempted to esculate the issue to Washington. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you are right J-Rad I did forget about him, but I was refering to the Flordia and AZ schools that in hindsight the people there now say, "Yea I guess wanting to learn how to turn and fly was kinda wierd....when they could care less about taking off and landing.."

Thats what I was talking about...sorry for the mistake....
 

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Re: Citizen spies: good or bad? (psm0110)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Last night there was an ad on TV encouraging people to rat out their neighbors for stealing cable!

This has gone too far!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 

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Re: Citizen spies: good or bad? (MeinPassat)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The instructor at the school contacted the Minneapolis branch of the FBI who then arrested him on immigration charges while they unsuccessfully attempted to esculate the issue to Washington.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, and no action from the Bush White House. I don't usually subscribe to conspiracy theories, but too much info, not enough action, while at the time the worst approval rating in history.

Remember his father (G.H.W. Bush), the former head of the C.I.A. was the architect of the arms for hostages with the Iran-Contra fiasco. Oh, but Clinton lied about a blowjob and was impeached!

Please, the Bush family is a cancer upon America (see Jeb in Fla). Before you go off with the "liberal" blah, blah, blah. I once voted for Ronald Reagan.
 

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Re: Citizen spies: good or bad? (dapperdill)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Yes, and no action from the Bush White House. I don't usually subscribe to conspiracy theories, but too much info, not enough action, while at the time the worst approval rating in history.

Remember his father (G.H.W. Bush), the former head of the C.I.A. was the architect of the arms for hostages with the Iran-Contra fiasco. Oh, but Clinton lied about a blowjob and was impeached!

Please, the Bush family is a cancer upon America (see Jeb in Fla). Before you go off with the "liberal" blah, blah, blah. I once voted for Ronald Reagan.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...Give it up!
 

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Re: Citizen spies: good or bad? (dapperdill)

Look, at least ground yourself with some actual facts. Your post is ridiculous but hey, if that's what you believe, then knock yourself out.
 

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Re: Citizen spies: good or bad? (ajchenmph)

All I can say is that it reminds me of the former Soviet Union, and how just about everyone was an informer for the KGB it seemed. I think vigilance against terrorism is a good thing, but we have to be equally vigilant against the slippery slope...
 
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