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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Many things I don’t yet understand yet before attacking the half moons, etc

1) About replacing the camshaft seals: 3 are the same (038103085C) and one is different ( 028103086A the one on the right - first photo); Which cam (passenger / driver / intake / exhaust) and what end of that cam (front / rear) gets the odd one?

102837


2) the included pictographs show that you shouldn’t add oil when putting these on the camshaft; more so, clean the camshaft. All instructions and guides I’ve read / watched on YouTube say to add a film of oil... so which is it?
 

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The PTFE cam seals are rotation directional. Meaning that the seals are specific to location.
I personally don't understand why the instructions say to NOT put an oil film on the seal. I used a dab of lithium grease to aid the installation of the seal.
Those seals must be installed with the installation tool, otherwise when slipping the seal over the end of the camshaft the lip of the seal will get compromised.
I installed the PTFE seals on my wife's 2003 GLX V6 when I rebuilt that engine. I ended up tearing everything apart again and installing the regular (original spec) cam seals.
The original ones are a reddish orangish color. They are a fraction of the cost and installation location does not apply to those. They are bi-directional.
And, they can be installed without a special tool.

There have been complaints that during extreme cold weather the PTFE seals leak oil.

Just giving you all the facts about PTFE cam seals.
 

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PTFE seal

102838




Original spec cam seal

102839
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the info - but still, which cam does the odd one go on? What’s the correct rotation for it?
 

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uh...
Lemme see if I can find that info.
The part number of the seal dictates it's installed position
 

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038 103 085 ?
Intake and exhaust on Bank #1
Exhaust on Bank #2


028 103 086 ?
Intake on Bank #2
 

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So you should have a QTY of 3 of 038 103 085 ?
and a QTY of 1 of 028 103 086 ?
 
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Oh also, you have to let the cam seals sit for a minimum of 4 hours after installation before running the engine.
It takes a while for the lip of the seal to conform to the camshaft bearing surface, as it was expanded by a couple of thousandths (about .05mm for you folks north of the line) to allow for installation.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yeah, I saw that wait time in the pictographs- wild! So you think oil? No oil?

thanks so much!
 

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The 3 seals with PN ending with C (Clockwise) go on the front (2 x Ex and 1 x B1 In).
The 1 seal with PN ending with A (Anti-clockwise) goes on the back of Bank 2 intake cam.

If using PTFE seals, shaft and seal should be clean and dry. (No oil)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Oh! Now I get it, ok.

Now what about the plain metal small caps
102842


or ‘covers’ - what’s up with them? I’ve never seen any video on these guys
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The 3 seals with PN ending with C (Clockwise) go on the front (2 x Ex and 1 x B1 In).
The 1 seal with PN ending with A (Anti-clockwise) goes on the back of Bank 2 intake cam.

If using PTFE seals, shaft and seal should be clean and dry. (No oil)
Also: if I want the seal to be on the camshaft far enough, but not too far, is there any indication on the shaft as to how far on the seal should go? I suppose I can mark where the old ones were with a sharpie. Or should I wait until the camshafts are back on the head and then seat them as far as they’ll go? How tightly seated should they be against the head, or should they just be far enough to sit in their ‘groove’.

These things must be obvious to a mechanic, so sorry about how inane the questions must seem! I just don’t know.
 

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The seals get pushed in until they bottom out. There is a counterbore that seal gets pressed into, when it hits bottom your done.
 
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Oh! Now I get it, ok.

Now what about the plain metal small caps View attachment 102842

or ‘covers’ - what’s up with them? I’ve never seen any video on these guys
Not used for what your doing.
Those metal caps are freeze plugs.
They go on the sides of the engine block - 1 per side.
It's blurry but you get the jest.
102848
 

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Ok so now it begs the question...
Did you get the freeze plugs thinking they were the camshaft end caps?
If not familiar with all the parts on the engine I can certainly see where the freeze plugs were purchased by mistake.
They call them covers. :confused:


These are what you're after.
Part# 078 103 113 E
102849
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok so now it begs the question...
Did you get the freeze plugs thinking they were the camshaft end caps?
If not familiar with all the parts on the engine I can certainly see where the freeze plugs were purchased by mistake.
They call them covers. :confused:


These are what you're after.
Part# 078 103 113 E
View attachment 102849
Yeah, from the camshaft diagram, I just got all the parts on that page lol. No biggie about the metal ‘caps’ as they were only $1.20 CAD each.

Yup, I got these black guys as well, and for my VIN, the ‘E’ version won’t fit - I needed to get the ‘F’ version. Not exactly sure why...
 

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As stated earlier a PTFE seal is installed dry without any type of lubricant. Lubricant will compromise the seal's integrity. Although I have not done any cam seal work in your engine type, but my experience a PTFE seal is always installed using a sleeve tool to prevent the lip from damage or folding.

Here's some good general tips on PTFE seals.
 

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and for my VIN, the ‘E’ version won’t fit - I needed to get the ‘F’ version. Not exactly sure why...
No difference between D, E and F they are all the same.
But as long as what you have works is what really matters.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
As stated earlier a PTFE seal is installed dry without any type of lubricant. Lubricant will compromise the seal's integrity. Although I have not done any cam seal work in your engine type, but my experience a PTFE seal is always installed using a sleeve tool to prevent the lip from damage or folding.

Here's some good general tips on PTFE seals.
Great reference material in the link. It mentions that you shouldn’t allow the new seal to sit where the old seal did. That makes sense as the wear over time on that exact spot would make it a half micron or so smaller diameter. When they talk about micron gap for oil lubrication on a new install, I think this would start to matter. But in practical terms, how much movement in or out on the camshaft can you accommodate and still be seated properly? It’s an interesting dilemma with such an engine. I’ll see how much ‘room’ I have to play with on the install. Anyone have a link to a PTFE install tool they like (that doesn’t cost a grand)? Or can you get by with a large socket and a bolt to pull it into the camshaft? I’m thinking of duplicating this:


I’m also (overthinking every bloody thing..) wondering if there’s any consideration or tip to ensure the seal is 100% perpendicular to the centreline of the camshaft? I know that any angle on this sort of setup would also compromise the oil seal.
 
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