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I remember back to Dana Carvey & Phil Hartman doing Bush Sr & Clinton on SNL after Sr lost to him... Carvey as Sr - "I'm gonna be remembered as a one term'errrrrrr."
Let's hope that comes true.....
 

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Give as much $$$$ to the Kerry campaign as you can afford....Bush is using his dollars to brainwash the susceptible public into distorted views of Kerry and as a way of deflecting questions about Bush's questionable record as President!

I'm going to use a good chunk of my tax refund to help Kerry combat the lies. :thumbup:
 

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blame bush...not the shitheads that actually did this. it's all bush's fault right? puh-lease.
 

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Medrosje said:
blame bush...not the shitheads that actually did this. it's all bush's fault right? puh-lease.
I gotta agree I mean I don't like Bush but lets remember history here when Clinton was in power the Blackhawk Down Incident was very similiar. Face it hate for the US exists no matter who or what party is in power
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Medrosje said:
blame bush...not the shitheads that actually did this. it's all bush's fault right? puh-lease.
It is Bush's fault. He went in there, WMDs blah blah blah, then touted how GREAT he was for liberating them. Well, it don't look too good, does it?
 

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Medrosje said:
blame bush...not the shitheads that actually did this. it's all bush's fault right? puh-lease.
No, those people proved why Iraq is a third world country, if that.
They deserve the same end, and they'll probably get it before we leave.
I'd like some payback for that one.

Maybe we went in there pretty damn hard at the begining of the war? Maybe this is payback. No, that is not justification, just trying to understand what we are dealing with.

At least Sadamn could be bought. $
We fucked up.

The thing about War is, you can't go half ass. You need to wipe out your enemy by any means possible. That's why I hate war, and think it should be used as a very last resort.
The best offense is a great defense. Sit there wait for your enemy to make a move, knowing that you are prepared.
In this case, we walked into a very obvious trap. Thank you Donald Rumsfield. Goes to show you, that you need not be too street smart to be worth half a Billion Dollars.

On Bush-
Not sure if Kerry is the best man for the job, but the Bush admin needs to go.

We need to basically reverse everything he, Ashcroft, and Cheney put into play.

Iraq-Somebody needs to answer for the lack of WMDs Period.
9/11-Bush uses this in his campagn comercials?
Afganastan-I agree, what was there was good for nobody. However, Bush needs to read 'Charlie Wilson's War' to get a clue on what goes on over there.

What's Bush's game plan on the domestic front?
How many times has Bush made a public speach where you didn't have to pay or be part of a Union to sit in and listen?
What has Bush done to incent companies into doing business in the states, versus out sourcing.
We should be giving tax breaks to corporations who employ Americans-The more American involvment, the more of a break.
Instead of going after Martha Stewart, we should be going after the dudes who are paid 50 and 100 dollars a year for being chairman.


Bush's tax cut is probably the funniest thing ever. He gives a tax cut, states get to pay for it.
If a anybody from California votes for Bush, they are blind.
 

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Z28Driver said:
Medrosje said:
blame bush...not the shitheads that actually did this. it's all bush's fault right? puh-lease.
I gotta agree I mean I don't like Bush but lets remember history here when Clinton was in power the Blackhawk Down Incident was very similiar. Face it hate for the US exists no matter who or what party is in power
True, but one party seems to favor war a lot more than the other does...
 

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The GREEK said:
Z28Driver said:
Medrosje said:
blame bush...not the shitheads that actually did this. it's all bush's fault right? puh-lease.
True, but one party seems to favor war a lot more than the other does...
You're talking about the Democrats right - World War II, Korea, Vietnam . . . ;)

(it's just a joke - put the fangs away guys - relax - it's just a joke!)
 

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Z28Driver said:
Medrosje said:
blame bush...not the shitheads that actually did this. it's all bush's fault right? puh-lease.
I gotta agree I mean I don't like Bush but lets remember history here when Clinton was in power the Blackhawk Down Incident was very similiar. Face it hate for the US exists no matter who or what party is in power
One very important issue nobody mentioned yet, although there is difference here between the Somalia incident and this tragedy. In Somalia US servicemembers were the victims and here they are contractors so comparison is somewhat distorted, but...

One of the main reasons Osama bin Laden got bold was the response of US Government to the Black Hawk incident in Somalia. After the footage was shown on TV around the world, we immediately cut our loses and pulled all troops from Somalia. This was seen as victory by AlQaida and reinvigorated their efforts to stage terrorist attacks on US interests around the world which ultimately culminated in 9/11. OBL was convinced that US did not have the guts to take measurable casualties and underestimated our response. I would not be surprised if similar incidents started to happen now in Iraq only with the twist that civilians are targeted instead on military since military does not travel in small numbers.
IMO we just need to get tough and stay the course. Running now would bring more damage than benefit. Eventually as Iraqi society stabilize this will cease to happen as the Iraqi themselves will weed out the bad apples.

War is hell a that's a fact.
 

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Medrosje said:
blame bush...not the shitheads that actually did this. it's all bush's fault right? puh-lease.
I really don't think anybody directly blames Bush for the actions of these scumbags...but he certainly put us in this confrontation under false pretenses.

I don't know how Kerry will do, but I believe he is principled and thoughtful about his actions and i'm optimistic that he can improve if not rectify our current situation. He may actually prove to be a great President.

Bush's "flip-flop" strategy to attack Kerry is as old as the hills. The Repubs use it every election year against the dems and it IS an effective character assassination tool early in a campaign. Later, however, when Kerry is better known to the entire country the facade will come down and they'll see what Kerry's made of and will see through the Bush attacks.

Yeah, Kerry is a political animal just as is Bush, but he's actually a very intelligent guy, passionate about democratic values, and he's not afraid to speak out against the mainstream when he feels it's warranted. He's been Senator in my home state all my adult life, and he's performed his duties with respect and passion. Bush has had his chance, it's time for a change.
 

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Tyrannosaurus said:
Yeah, Kerry is a political animal just as is Bush, but he's actually a very intelligent guy, passionate about democratic values, and he's not afraid to speak out against the mainstream when he feels it's warranted.
That's not Kerry, that's Dean. Dems picked the wrong guy.
 

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Z28Driver said:
Medrosje said:
blame bush...not the shitheads that actually did this. it's all bush's fault right? puh-lease.
I gotta agree I mean I don't like Bush but lets remember history here when Clinton was in power the Blackhawk Down Incident was very similiar. Face it hate for the US exists no matter who or what party is in power
its really hard to continue to want to 'save the world' when, to much of the world, "we're damned if we do and damned if we don't".

sigh ;(
 

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linux-works said:
Z28Driver said:
Medrosje said:
blame bush...not the shitheads that actually did this. it's all bush's fault right? puh-lease.
I gotta agree I mean I don't like Bush but lets remember history here when Clinton was in power the Blackhawk Down Incident was very similiar. Face it hate for the US exists no matter who or what party is in power
its really hard to continue to want to 'save the world' when, to much of the world, "we're damned if we do and damned if we don't".

sigh ;(
Funny thing is, a very large portion of people in the world are just trying to get food and water for the day. You can't truly appreciate what life is like for most people in the world. Even living in a 3rd world country for a couple months only provides a glimpse. These folks could care less about most of this stuff. We're extremely lucky to be able to waste so much time and energy on the b.s. we talk about here.
 

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I wouldn't want to politicize those poor people that died like that, but they are a symbol of this whole misguided mess.

We won the war, that was the easy part.
To me, these kinds of f'ed up events just reflect the *total lack of planning.*

Remember what this administration was telling us one year ago:

"They'll have parades in the streets for us."
"The whole war and rebuilding will be paid for by Iraqi oil." (haha, that was a good one.)
"We know where the WMD are." (Rumsfeld)
"I don't think the US ought to be involved in 'nation-building'." (Mr. Bush during the debates.)
 

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Der Meister said:
To me, these kinds of f'ed up events just reflect the *total lack of planning.*
I'm curious. What would you have planned now that you have the benefit of some 20/20 hindsight? (Don't say "not fight the war"...you're talking about planning for after the war was won)
 

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Urlik said:
What would you have planned now that you have the benefit of some 20/20 hindsight? (Don't say "not fight the war"...you're talking about planning for after the war was won)
Well, gee, I guess had I been any of this administration I wouldn't have been saying "the Iraqis are going to welcome us with open arms."

And I said "total lack of planning" which includes how to keep the peace.
I'd love to see Iraq become a shining symbol of peace, prosperity, and democracy.
Except this administration was pretty naive to present that picture so early on.

In order to preserve any peace, it would seem to be helpful to have some legitimacy in occupying the country in the first place.

There are some positive signs of economic development, but those dark clouds of unrest, however "unfair," represent a grave threat to any notion of a "handover."
 

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Der Meister said:
In order to preserve any peace, it would seem to be helpful to have some legitimacy in occupying the country in the first place.

There are some positive signs of economic development, but those dark clouds of unrest, however "unfair," represent a grave threat to any notion of a "handover."
I'm not so sure that even with UN approval, there wouldn't be the same reaction from the fundies over in iraq. the west=evil and no UN backing will ever change that (in their minds).

I say exit there post-haste and that way, any shite that goes down, its on THEIR watch. bastante!
 
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